Drag/Acceleration Weight of the worlds fastest Stinger....

[Kinvara8017]

We now have a fast heavy weight GT2 AWD JB4 car to add to the mix. But i'm afraid it helps debunk the rest of @StungBlueGT2 's bench racing tuning theories. We have established that stock boost even as measured by JB4 can go up to 14.5 PSI, and even 16 PSI in extreme conditions as measured by boost gauge. 14.5 PSI +8 on WMI = 22.5 potential, so same boost, could go higher.
The new heavy weight challenger has more mods, similar traps and .1 slower ETs so far. Extra mods are WMI, throttle body, BOV, no mufflers, no secondary cats. (my secondary's are back on and my muffler is not straight through) The WMI FMIC combo seems to work as he said he was hitting 80-85 IATs to my 119 IATs at my last outing when I ran a 11.89, 11.90 @ 117 MPH. He also is doing some trick to launch on boost so no launch advantage now. I'm still resistant to WMI but just the lower temps with no tune or octane changes should get me down around 11.75 or lower.

1. 11.86 @ 117.16, @Tonkabob, 7.67 @ 93.53, 1.84
GT2 AWD, Tork ECU tune, Ark catback, JT intake, UP FMIC, SSR midpipe (11.89 w stock MP), E15

3. 11.959 @ 117.80 @Kinvara8017, 7.75 @ 93.28, 1.838
GT2 AWD JB4, WMI, UP FMIC, throttle body, VT snorkel, BOV, Custom primary cat back straight pipe exhaust

I dont do passes on WMI, its actually not as fast and i cant get higher boost at lower rpm ATM... I will use it for a cooldown WOT lap between map 5 pulls.. Ill sit at around 105-110 (if i remember correctly) at the end of a map 5 pull, 135 by the time i line up again, then drops it to 80ish after a meth pull. Ill pull off and shut down the car while waiting in line, then line up with a 90degree IAT for a good 5 pull... I gotta get burger to turn up the low end boost for my map 8 for me as thats what i thought WMI would do... but i make do with what works

 

[Tonkabob]

We see that should word or would word quite a bit from the Tork side of things. You are local, id dont get why (john thinks) if you guys can get down to mid 11s (he actually has said low 11s) with meth why dont you guys. Im sure he has a spare kit laying around just slap it on a rubber throttle body couplings and run it under the car so you can pull it after the track day. Let see it be done.

When i tried to support Tork I mentioned that he needs to work on advertising, You should 100% be asking to be a sponsored vehicle as you are going to be the only thing that can help propel him to sales. If you can get to mid 11s and help create a Tonka package like Meth kit, tune, intakes and exhaust for idk $3k im sure that will help get some bites and more importantly SALES. I know you know deep down the more John cant sell tunes the less likely he will continue to support the platform. I like you tonka so i have faith if you can help GUIDE him you guys can create something very niche, but very impresive.

I like the idea of the Tonka package! Or at least the Tonka Tune - stage 1.5 with just intake, FMIC and catback, as I don't have any other TMS parts and don't want WMI, just jealous of its cooling effects.
Johns car should be back from getting painted any day now and he will be updating the tune and putting on WMI. I won't beat his RWD with WMI and DRs so he will have to take the top spot honors.
My Tune is from January and he has tons of more maps unlocked now. But Johns plan is long term so he isn't going to rush out stage 2 as frustrating as that is.

 

[Tonkabob]

I dont do passes on WMI, its actually not as fast and i cant get higher boost at lower rpm ATM... I will use it for a cooldown WOT lap between map 5 pulls.. Ill sit at around 105-110 (if i remember correctly) at the end of a map 5 pull, 135 by the time i line up again, then drops it to 80ish after a meth pull. Ill pull off and shut down the car while waiting in line, then line up with a 90degree IAT for a good 5 pull... I gotta get burger to turn up the low end boost for my map 8 for me as thats what i thought WMI would do... but i make do with what works

Interesting. I tried some cool down laps as well (not WOT) and could get down to 85-90 but by the time I lined back up the temps already shoot up to 115-120 best case and that's with virtually no lines. I probably need some of your thermal wrap. With out the cool down lap 145 IATs.

 

[Kinvara8017]

Interesting. I tried some cool down laps as well (not WOT) and could get down to 85-90 but by they time I lined back up the temps already shoot up to 115-120 best case and that's with virtually no lines. I probably need some of your thermal wrap. With out the cool down lap 145 IATs.

Gotta keep the WMI running on your way back.. I set mine to spray at 5psi on the way back, and go straight back to lining up... pop the hood and wait.. Thermal wraps brought me down about 5ish degrees

 

[Tonkabob]

No WMI here so my cool down drives can be a bit long. I am resisting WMI. So you basically have a water methanol intercooler.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Interesting. I tried some cool down laps as well (not WOT) and could get down to 85-90 but by the time I lined back up the temps already shoot up to 115-120 best case and that's with virtually no lines. I probably need some of your thermal wrap. With out the cool down lap 145 IATs.

If you know the octane is there just use intake temp spoofing to let the car think temps are 60F to get the power back.

 

[xot1]

With WMI and FMIC my IAT are 75F during a 25 second pull that ends around 165mph.

 

[Tonkabob]

If you know the octane is there just use intake temp spoofing to let the car think temps are 60F to get the power back.

If you spoof 60 you lose boost. <60 lose 2 PSI, 60-80 1 PSI, above 90 or 100 full boost. (roughly). I have logs as hot as 145 and still full boost and timing. Any hotter and I suspect you lose some. I did have a 150+ run not logged and it didn't fell so great.
This one is surprising good at 140 starting IAT.

 

[Tonkabob]

With WMI and FMIC my IAT are 75F during a 25 second pull that ends around 165mph.

We are more battling the heat soak of waiting in line at the drag strip and its impact on IATs and our times.

 

[Terry@BMS]

As you lower IAT you'll drop boost (since boost targeting is load based as discussed), but also pickup timing as you're working from more aggressive parts of the intake temp timing offset tables. If octane isn't a factor set boost high, and set the IAT timing compensation tables lower in the flash (or dynamically using a JB4), and have at it. And monitor knock in cyl 1-6 to confirm octane is sufficient.

 

[xot1]

As you lower IAT you'll drop boost (since boost targeting is load based as discussed), but also pickup timing as you're working from more aggressive parts of the intake temp timing offset tables. If octane isn't a factor set boost high, and set the IAT timing compensation tables lower in the flash (or dynamically using a JB4), and have at it. And monitor knock in cyl 1-6 to confirm octane is sufficient.

by 1-6 you mean 1 and 6 or all cylinders?

 

[Terry@BMS]

Monitoring timing advance in all cylinders, of course. Not just cylinder 1.

 

[Tonkabob]

As you lower IAT you'll drop boost (since boost targeting is load based as discussed), but also pickup timing as you're working from more aggressive parts of the intake temp timing offset tables. If octane isn't a factor set boost high, and set the IAT timing compensation tables lower in the flash (or dynamically using a JB4), and have at it. And monitor knock in cyl 1-6 to confirm octane is sufficient.

I think that one was partially debunked, 3rd priority?, but temps do impact the torque limits.

 

[Terry@BMS]

I think that one was partially debunked, 3rd priority?, but temps do impact the torque limits.

It wasn't. John is just having a hard time seeing the forest from the trees and frankly is too far gone to attempt rehabilitation.

With the factory flash tables the intake temp reading directly effects the load & boost targets. Spoofing it low will lower boost but also raise timing. To get your times improved you could increase octane and then reduce the IAT timing retard in the flash tables directly, or do the same thing more dynamically using an IAT spoofing approach. There is a lot of stuff you could try if you had easy to adjust tuning tools available to you.

 

[Tonkabob]

It wasn't. John is just having a hard time seeing the forest from the trees and frankly is too far gone to attempt rehabilitation.

With the factory flash tables the intake temp reading directly effects the load & boost targets. Spoofing it low will lower boost but also raise timing. To get your times improved you could increase octane and then reduce the IAT timing retard in the flash tables directly, or do the same thing more dynamically using an IAT spoofing approach. There is a lot of stuff you could try if you had easy to adjust tuning tools available to you.

This is just point in time data looking at max timing in 4th gear and max boost in 3rd gear at various IATs across 6 different runs. It appears that timing is not really temperature based (at least in the ranges I am showing), The timing somewhat inversely related to boost but by dropping temps (and max boost) it doesn't look like I would add any timing. Tapered top end boost doesn't look temp limited but max boost definitely is.
(End Geek session)

 

[Tonkabob]

There is no bragging or bickering here, just sharing some data to make these cars go faster. We need that top 15 list all in the 11's!

 

[Terry@BMS]

Speaking of data had a chance to grab a log on the stock tuning with IAT = ~40 and IAT = ~130, no other changes. Note the dramatic tuning differences. Worth noting how much faster the higher boost lower timing run was, almost 2 seconds faster up to 6000rpm in 4th!

 

[brancky3]

Speaking of data had a chance to grab a log on the stock tuning with IAT = ~40 and IAT = ~130, no other changes. Note the dramatic tuning differences. Worth noting how much faster the higher boost lower timing run was, almost 2 seconds faster up to 6000rpm in 4th!

View attachment 26648 View attachment 26649

That's impressive. So theoretically, if I'm understanding correctly, spoofing the IAT to be higher will actually be greatly beneficial assuming we have the octane to back it up? I guess this wouldnt be needed after waiting in the staging lanes at the track though... lol

 

[xot1]

Speaking of data had a chance to grab a log on the stock tuning with IAT = ~40 and IAT = ~130, no other changes. Note the dramatic tuning differences. Worth noting how much faster the higher boost lower timing run was, almost 2 seconds faster up to 6000rpm in 4th!

View attachment 26648 View attachment 26649

Is it a boost additive map?
The ECU_PSI is 3~4psi higher in the second log?

 

[brancky3]

Is it a boost additive map?
The ECU_PSI is 3~4psi higher in the second log?

ECU PSI is higher because the ECU thinks the air is hotter, meaning it's less dense. More boost pressure is required for the same mass of air compared to lower IATs.