The Kia Stinger is not an Optima, Camry, Accord, or Altima Competitor

[Kia Stinger]

I left out Ford Fusion because I've never driven one. Before my Accord I had a 2014 Ford Focus and while it certainly wasn't my favorite car, it was pretty darn solid. Much better than the Toyota Corolla I've rented a thousand times over the years. So it's certainly possible that the Ford Fusion is "Buick Regal" solid because it's technically the same car as the Lincoln MKZ - which is a pretty solid car itself.

What I want to do here is point out what will become obvious ONLY AFTER you drive the Stinger. The Stinger is on another level. I currently have a 2016 Honda Accord Touring V6. Basically the same car as the Acura TLX. It's a great car. But it's not a luxury car. At all. It has a few luxurious features - but it's not a luxury car. Neither is the TLX in my humble opinion.

My wife drives a 2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan, V6, Signature. There is no comparison between that car and my Accord. The Genesis is a true luxury sedan in every way other than the badge and service - but that's not "the car". The Hyundai Sonata is Hyundai's midsize sedan. So was the Hyundai Genesis Sedan. But each car catered to a completely different customer.

Just getting in the car and closing the door is a different experience. The Genesis has a thump. The Sonata does not. Sitting in each vehicle feels different. Sounds different. Driving each vehicle feels different - after all they're on different platforms. The suspension in the Genesis is worlds better than the suspension in the Sonata.

The Kia Optima is a Hyundai Sonata. Same thing - pretty much. The Kia Stinger isn't going to feel like an Optima. At all. It's going to feel like a Genesis G70 - which is competing with cars from Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Lexus, etcetera. Not Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. Calling the Stinger an Optima is like calling a Lexus LS a Camry. No.

NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) is completely different. Smoothness of shifting, smoothness of ride, silence in the cabin. It's an entirely different experience. You and your passengers will immediately sense the environment is not "average".

 

[moinmoin]

I left out Ford Fusion because I've never driven one. Before my Accord I had a 2014 Ford Focus and while it certainly wasn't my favorite car, it was pretty darn solid. Much better than the Toyota Corolla I've rented a thousand times over the years. So it's certainly possible that the Ford Fusion is "Buick Regal" solid because it's technically the same car as the Lincoln MKZ - which is a pretty solid car itself.

What I want to do here is point out what will become obvious ONLY AFTER you drive the Stinger. The Stinger is on another level. I currently have a 2016 Honda Accord Touring V6. Basically the same car as the Acura TLX. It's a great car. But it's not a luxury car. At all. It has a few luxurious features - but it's not a luxury car. Neither is the TLX in my humble opinion.

My wife drives a 2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan, V6, Signature. There is no comparison between that car and my Accord. The Genesis is a true luxury sedan in every way other than the badge and service - but that's not "the car". The Hyundai Sonata is Hyundai's midsize sedan. So was the Hyundai Genesis Sedan. But each car catered to a completely different customer.

Just getting in the car and closing the door is a different experience. The Genesis has a thump. The Sonata does not. Sitting in each vehicle feels different. Sounds different. Driving each vehicle feels different - after all they're on different platforms. The suspension in the Genesis is worlds better than the suspension in the Sonata.

The Kia Optima is a Hyundai Sonata. Same thing - pretty much. The Kia Stinger isn't going to feel like an Optima. At all. It's going to feel like a Genesis G70 - which is competing with cars from Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Lexus, etcetera. Not Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. Calling the Stinger an Optima is like calling a Lexus LS a Camry. No.

NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) is completely different. Smoothness of shifting, smoothness of ride, silence in the cabin. It's an entirely different experience. You and your passengers will immediately sense the environment is not "average".

Thanks. I think we all needed that.

 

[Chris]

I think most people would agree that those cars are not direct competitors to the stinger. I think the rub comes in at all those cars are available with features that will not be available in the stinger. (Or at least that's what the horrible way Kia has introduced the car leads us to believe)
There is no way a 50K+ car should not have the features that appear to be left out. (360 view, heated rear seats, etc) especially when those same features exist in other markets for a huge price discount.
IMO the "cheap" version is even worse, there are basically no tech features that the average consumer expects to be on a car in 2018. An 18k bare bones Toyota Corolla has features that the 33k base stinger does not.

 

[Chris]

Oh and by the way I had a 2017 Ford fusion as a rental car for two weeks this summer, and it was nothing to write home about. Not horrible but nothing special either.

 

[moinmoin]

I think most people would agree that those cars are not direct competitors to the stinger. I think the rub comes in at all those cars are available with features that will not be available in the stinger. (Or at least that's what the horrible way Kia has introduced the car leads us to believe)
There is no way a 50K+ car should not have the features that appear to be left out. (360 view, heated rear seats, etc) especially when those same features exist in other markets for a huge price discount.
IMO the "cheap" version is even worse, there are basically no tech features that the average consumer expects to be on a car in 2018. An 18k bare bones Toyota Corolla has features that the 33k base stinger does not.

KIA has not yet issued a complete list of content for the US or Canada. And that is the real problem. And that IMHO is the point we should really bitch about. Bitching and getting riled up before you have all the facts is detrimental to your health.
As much as I would like to have all the fact, I am sitting back and wait. If what I want is not there when the facts are all in, I'll make the decision to buy or not to buy. Not before.

 

[Chris]

I think a lot of the "bitching and getting riled up" is directly related to the fact we have been told that the "Kia exec's" are in this forum and are reading what we write. I believe the hope for a lot of people is that they are and will hear us, and somehow give us the features we want.

I do totally agree with you that until the real US spec car is available no decision can really be made. That's one of the reasons I haven't even bothered to go look at the stinger yet. It makes no sense for me to look at the Korean, or EU spec or whatever the crap they have in the dealers now, when it's not what I'm going to have available to me.
And just in case those exec's are reading, I still think the fully loaded car is overpriced by about 5-6k

 

[jbweb7]

Kia Stinger Admin, I see what you are saying...I test drove a G80 and used 2015 Hyundai Genesis last night. Both vehicles are a totally different beast vs the G70 and Stinger. I honestly may pick up a used Genesis if the pricing isn't right on the Stinger. The ride is plusher than I prefer, but the ride and value proposition is very impressive. That being said...I am skeptical the base Stinger will far surpass Titanium or Sport Fusion/Mondeo. The Mondeo and Insignia/Regal go to to toe with the BMW 3 in Europe. I drove a 2015 BMW 328/330 back to back with a new Titanium And Sport Fusion. The Ford is easily in the conversation. Of course the lesser Fusions are not, they lose the premium leathers, large touchscreens, safety tech and suspension tuning. A high end Sonata is not there yet I agree. Hyundai acknowledges as much with there pricing and as an owner I have seen it first hand. I have not driven the new high end Camry or Accord, but if Ford can compete with an entry level BMW, I am not counting Honda or Toyota out.

 

[ralzod]

It makes no sense for me to look at the Korean, or EU spec or whatever the crap they have in the dealers now

That's my position on watching/reading all of the reviews...my brain has KDM demo car fatigue. However, it was a well worth it for me to go see one in person, because cockpit size is a big deal for me, and it's just not something anyone can effectively measure and report on. It always amazes me how car reviewers report their standing height relative to the seating position of a car. Leg and torso lengths vary drastically between people of the same height, so a single measurement of standing height is basically useless when reviewing a seating position.

Also, Kia execs: 360° surround view cam! If you're concerned it will hurt the upper price on the GTII, then just make it a standalone option.

​

 

[moinmoin]

IMO it comes down to the "fact" that KIA's "Marketing", if you want to call it that, is simply terrible.
It starts with the models. The one and same model should be identical in all markets. Whether it's the stupid badging in Korea vs. the rest of the world, drink holder covers y/n , heated rear seats (not clear), 360 deg. cameras (not clear), various pictures depicting slight differences of the interior (production y/n), it all serves to create uncertainty, certainly no positive buzz.
As I said before, no comprehensive lists of content for different models (EVERY OTHER manufacturer seems to be able to provide this), and then the ridicolous or even insane demand to ask for a $5,000. deposit for something that has not been fully described, nor could I put my hands on a sample or even test drive it. Nor was I given a price. To say "Less than" on your website is NOT good enough. This is asking me to commit to a pig in a poke. NO COMPANY should try to do business like that.

When I posted their request for a $5K deposit here on the forum, I expected a much, much greater response than I was actually getting.
We could have told these KIA executives then, how wrong their approach was, to stop this shit and give us the information we have a right to, to make an informed descision.
It is time.

 

[moinmoin]

That's my position on watching/reading all of the reviews...my brain has KDM demo car fatigue. However, it was a well worth it for me to go see one in person, because cockpit size is a big deal for me, and it's just not something anyone can effectively measure and report on. It always amazes me how car reviewers report their standing height relative to the seating position of a car. Leg and torso lengths vary drastically between people of the same height, so a single measurement of standing height is basically useless when reviewing a seating position.

Also, Kia execs: 360° surround view cam! If you're concerned it will hurt the upper price on the GTII, then just make it a standalone option.

View attachment 651​

All models should have all the technology and differentiate only by

• color/paint (exterior/interior)
• leather/PU leather/fabric interior (yeah fabric, it keeps you in your seat)
• power adjustments of seating
• Audio
• sunroof
• Engines
• Rubber & rims
• Brakes (Engine dependent)
• Lighting (HID/LED)

That way the projected lowest price could be increased and the "proposed " high end pricing could be decreased....

 

[hereward]

Kia's rollout of the Stinger is a dog's dinner - KDM cars as demos but no further information to the sales people- how are they supposed to answer any questions from the customers who come to see the cars?

 

[ScottyDangles]

Pretty sure they backed off that request in the end. I was told they sent a message to the dealers threatening if the name of the person who made the deposit didn’t match the name on the bill of sale they wouldn’t get access to another stinger for 90 days.

Honestly I think it’s a joke a company like Kia tried to pull this off. Goes to show how disconnected the executive team is. This car should be drawing new types of customers who could care less about brand image. They should be rewarding the early adopters with aggressive pricing and giving clarity in the whole buying process!

 

[moinmoin]

Pretty sure they backed off that request in the end. I was told they sent a message to the dealers threatening if the name of the person who made the deposit didn’t match the name on the bill of sale they wouldn’t get access to another stinger for 90 days.

Honestly I think it’s a joke a company like Kia tried to pull this off. Goes to show how disconnected the executive team is. This car should be drawing new types of customers who could care less about brand image. They should be rewarding the early adopters with aggressive pricing and giving clarity in the whole buying process!

...in addition, KIA offered no consideration for the deposit. There is something in marketing about making someone feel "special". Aaaand, Canadian buyers are getting 5 year warranties, the shortest of them all.

 

[ScottyDangles]

...in addition, KIA offered no consideration for the deposit. There is something in marketing about making someone feel "special". Aaaand, Canadian buyers are getting 5 year warranties, the shortest of them all.

Exactly! The warranty is pissing me off too, I think VW has a better warranty now on top of having way more brand power and resale value. What the heck Kia!!

Before the stinger I had never walked into a Kia showroom nor did I have any interest in its cars. They finally lure me in and then completely drop the ball... I’m really hoping the car is as good as I think it is.

Ps - I think we totally hijacked the thread!! Ha

 

[westcoastGT]

KIA has not yet issued a complete list of content for the US or Canada. And that is the real problem. And that IMHO is the point we should really bitch about. Bitching and getting riled up before you have all the facts is detrimental to your health.
As much as I would like to have all the fact, I am sitting back and wait. If what I want is not there when the facts are all in, I'll make the decision to buy or not to buy. Not before.

I have a copy of the Internal Marketing Memo - Pre Order Booking Process ( Canada ) and it has a complete list of features for both the GT and GT Limited The GM of the dealership downloaded it then printed me a copy , Go ask your dealer for a copy

 

[Jayce]

So, I agree that it's going to have a totally different feel than some lesser vehicles, but I am not only getting a vehicle for how plush the ride is. I also want to have plenty of features, and I certainly don't want a vehicle to have less features than the "lesser" model. So while I agree that there is no comparison, people who are in the market for a car probably will be somewhat turned off if all the options are not available. Kia needs to get it together, and at least announce one way or another the comprehensive list of features so that people can at least stop having to speculate.

 

[moinmoin]

I have a copy of the Internal Marketing Memo - Pre Order Booking Process ( Canada ) and it has a complete list of features for both the GT and GT Limited The GM of the dealership downloaded it then printed me a copy , Go ask your dealer for a copy

Yeah, I have a copy of that Internal Marketing Memo too, but, as @ScottyDangles said, they dropped the ball completely. The list of features in that memo is not complete, i.e only on this forum did I find out, that the Stinger has mirrors, that tilt when reversing. For some of the KIA clients here, driving an Optima, it may be an old hat, but I was pleasantly surprised. That's also a BMW feature. There are other examples, and as a potential customer, I want to know ALL features, every little detail, and the more detailed they are in their descriptions, the more serious I will take them. But EVERYTHING sofar published by KIA in respect to the Stinger and I could get my hands on, in Korean, English or German differed in some aspects. If you leave the design and content of the messages to each department, group, country, don't expect to get a unified message.

The car would really need to be overwhelming to make up for all this nonense coming out KIA sofar.

 

[westcoastGT]

Yeah, I have a copy of that Internal Marketing Memo too, but, as @ScottyDangles said, the dropped the ball completely. The list of features in that memo is not complete, i.e only on this forum did I find out, that the Stinger has mirrors, that tilt when reversing. For some of the KIA clients here, driving an Optima, it may be an old hat, but I was pleasantly surprised. That's also a BMW feature. There are other examples, and as a potential customer, I want to know ALL features, every little detail, and the more detailed they are in their descriptions, the more serious I will take them. But EVERYTHING sofar published by KIA in respect to the Stinger and I could get my hands on, in Korean, English or German differed in some aspects. If you leave the design and content of the messages to each department, group, country, don't expect to get a unified message.

The car would really need to ber overwhelming to make up for all this nonense coming out KIA sofar.

I hear you , BMW bought back my X6 2 years ago , it was a friggin LEMON ! I pondered what to buy next and ultimately was charmed into a Sorento by all the fantastic reviews and awards . 2 years later I still am raiving about how great Sorento's are vs German Sport Utes ! Thats why I had the confidense to order my Stinger . One thing I strongly suggest is only deal with the Dealers GM , I will not even talk to a salesperson , "The Organ grinder vs the Monkey !"
The Kia dealer experience and Regional Marketing is pretty average but the cars are very good IMHO .

 

[moinmoin]

I hear you , BMW bought back my X6 2 years ago , it was a friggin LEMON ! I pondered what to buy next and ultimately was charmed into a Sorento by all the fantastic reviews and awards . 2 years later I still am raiving about how great Sorento's are vs German Sport Utes ! Thats why I had the confidense to order my Stinger . One thing I strongly suggest is only deal with the Dealers GM , I will not even talk to a salesperson , "The Organ grinder vs the Monkey !"
The Kia dealer experience and Regional Marketing is pretty average but the cars are very good IMHO .

Good to hear, thanks. I am doing it alredy, the dealing...

 

[ralzod]

...in addition, KIA offered no consideration for the deposit. There is something in marketing about making someone feel "special". Aaaand, Canadian buyers are getting 5 year warranties, the shortest of them all.

I hadn't thought of it before, but perhaps the shorter warranty explains the Canadian price advantage that everyone in the US has been complaining about.