The Kia Stinger is not an Optima, Camry, Accord, or Altima Competitor

[moinmoin]

explains the Canadian price advantage

It's possible....

 

[Chris]

I hadn't thought of it before, but perhaps the shorter warranty explains the Canadian price advantage that everyone in the US has been complaining about.

Maybe.. so then the question becomes would you give up the extra 5 years of power train warranty to save 10k?

 

[Kia Stinger]

I think most people would agree that those cars are not direct competitors to the stinger. I think the rub comes in at all those cars are available with features that will not be available in the stinger. (Or at least that's what the horrible way Kia has introduced the car leads us to believe)
There is no way a 50K+ car should not have the features that appear to be left out. (360 view, heated rear seats, etc) especially when those same features exist in other markets for a huge price discount.
IMO the "cheap" version is even worse, there are basically no tech features that the average consumer expects to be on a car in 2018. An 18k bare bones Toyota Corolla has features that the 33k base stinger does not.

I agree that the Stinger should have ANY feature that ANY version a Toyota Corolla or Kia Optima has - at the very least as an option. I haven't seen the final list of available features for the Stinger in the U.S. so I don't want to comment on what may or may not be...

 

[Kia Stinger]

Oh and by the way I had a 2017 Ford fusion as a rental car for two weeks this summer, and it was nothing to write home about. Not horrible but nothing special either.

My "feeling" (since I've not driven one) is that the Ford Fusion is a step above the Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata, and Optima. Reasons being:

1. The Ford Focus I owned, despite the most ridiculous transmission known to man, was a very solid car. I was impressed. And I've had some pretty impressive cars in my life. I'm old. I've been around. I've driven the best. For me to say I was impressed by a Focus means more than somebody who's only driven a Focus. It's a solid car. But I'd never recommend one due to that waste of a dual clutch transmission they put in it.

2. The Fusion, which I have to imagine is better (or at least as good as the Focus) - is the Lincoln MKZ's little brother. It has to be a pretty good car for Lincoln to have put their badge (seal of approval) on it. Could I be mistaken? Sure. But that would be one hell of a mistake made by the way-higher-paid-than-I executives at Lincoln betting on all their future's - and that of their families...

I'm assuming the Fusion is a pretty good car. I'm not sure if you've had any decent amount of time in a Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata or Optima - but if you have I'd love to hear a good comparison to one another. Again, all I can do is assume since I haven't driven a Fusion. For God's sake (or at least Lincoln's sake) - I HOPE it's not just a Camry/Accord with a Lincoln badge on it...

 

[Kia Stinger]

Kia Stinger Admin, I see what you are saying...I test drove a G80 and used 2015 Hyundai Genesis last night. Both vehicles are a totally different beast vs the G70 and Stinger. I honestly may pick up a used Genesis if the pricing isn't right on the Stinger. The ride is plusher than I prefer, but the ride and value proposition is very impressive. That being said...I am skeptical the base Stinger will far surpass Titanium or Sport Fusion/Mondeo. The Mondeo and Insignia/Regal go to to toe with the BMW 3 in Europe. I drove a 2015 BMW 328/330 back to back with a new Titanium And Sport Fusion. The Ford is easily in the conversation. Of course the lesser Fusions are not, they lose the premium leathers, large touchscreens, safety tech and suspension tuning. A high end Sonata is not there yet I agree. Hyundai acknowledges as much with there pricing and as an owner I have seen it first hand. I have not driven the new high end Camry or Accord, but if Ford can compete with an entry level BMW, I am not counting Honda or Toyota out.

Well, we don't actually know that the Genesis and G80 are entirely different beasts from the G70 and Stinger yet. Yes, they're different cars geared for different customers but the G70 and Stinger are going to be leagues and leagues and leagues better than similarly sized cars like the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic (actually, I'm not sure just how good the new Civic is - maybe they've raised the bar), Nissan Sentra, Ford Focus (I know they've done some serious bar raising), Hyundai Elantra, and Chevy Cruze. The Stinger and G70 are going to feel more like a Lexus IS, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, BMW 3-Series, etcetera.

If this is not the case and the Stinger and G70 are either going to fall somewhere in between or actually relate more closely to the first set of cars (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, Hyundai, and Chevy) - then Genesis Motors might as well cease to exist right now. I have to imagine (hope) that Genesis Motors has aspirations to survive and actually be competitive in the luxury class...

As for the Fusion, I tend to believe it's a well put-together car and can actually be discussed in a conversation with some of the top-tier luxury products in some ways. I don't know for sure what the new Honda Accord is like but I can certainly tell you that the 2016 isn't anything special and I hear the new Camry isn't even up to par with the Accord. So I'm confident these two characters (and their direct competitors) won't hold a candle to the Kia Stinger...

 

[Chris]

My "feeling" (since I've not driven one) is that the Ford Fusion is a step above the Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata, and Optima. Reasons being:

1. The Ford Focus I owned, despite the most ridiculous transmission known to man, was a very solid car. I was impressed. And I've had some pretty impressive cars in my life. I'm old. I've been around. I've driven the best. For me to say I was impressed by a Focus means more than somebody who's only driven a Focus. It's a solid car. But I'd never recommend one due to that waste of a dual clutch transmission they put in it.

2. The Fusion, which I have to imagine is better (or at least as good as the Focus) - is the Lincoln MKZ's little brother. It has to be a pretty good car for Lincoln to have put their badge (seal of approval) on it. Could I be mistaken? Sure. But that would be one hell of a mistake made by the way-higher-paid-than-I executives at Lincoln betting on all their future's - and that of their families...

I'm assuming the Fusion is a pretty good car. I'm not sure if you've had any decent amount of time in a Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata or Optima - but if you have I'd love to hear a good comparison to one another. Again, all I can do is assume since I haven't driven a Fusion. For God's sake (or at least Lincoln's sake) - I HOPE it's not just a Camry/Accord with a Lincoln badge on it...

I own a 2013 optima sx, so I have spent a lot of time in it.
I haven't driven an accord in years, but did drive a Camry rental car for a few days.
The fusion I drove for 2 weeks was a 2017 titanium.
The interior was fairly nice, still a lot of plastic feeling parts but overall not horrible. The nav screen was a pretty big step above my Kia. The seats seemed to be a lot more comfortable than the optima seats. My optima however is a lot more sporty to drive. Cornering, acceleration, etc is way better than the fusion. It may not be a perfect comparison as my Kia is 4 years old and the fusion was brand new. The 2017 optima interior is a step above my 2013.

 

[Kia Stinger]

IMO it comes down to the "fact" that KIA's "Marketing", if you want to call it that, is simply terrible.
It starts with the models. The one and same model should be identical in all markets. Whether it's the stupid badging in Korea vs. the rest of the world, drink holder covers y/n , heated rear seats (not clear), 360 deg. cameras (not clear), various pictures depicting slight differences of the interior (production y/n), it all serves to create uncertainty, certainly no positive buzz.
As I said before, no comprehensive lists of content for different models (EVERY OTHER manufacturer seems to be able to provide this), and then the ridicolous or even insane demand to ask for a $5,000. deposit for something that has not been fully described, nor could I put my hands on a sample or even test drive it. Nor was I given a price. To say "Less than" on your website is NOT good enough. This is asking me to commit to a pig in a poke. NO COMPANY should try to do business like that.

When I posted their request for a $5K deposit here on the forum, I expected a much, much greater response than I was actually getting.
We could have told these KIA executives then, how wrong their approach was, to stop this shit and give us the information we have a right to, to make an informed descision.
It is time.

We've got a little conversation going directly to Kia executives in this section (in case you haven't seen it):
https://stingerforum.org/forums/open-letters-to-kia-motors.18/

 

[Kia Stinger]

So, I agree that it's going to have a totally different feel than some lesser vehicles, but I am not only getting a vehicle for how plush the ride is. I also want to have plenty of features, and I certainly don't want a vehicle to have less features than the "lesser" model. So while I agree that there is no comparison, people who are in the market for a car probably will be somewhat turned off if all the options are not available. Kia needs to get it together, and at least announce one way or another the comprehensive list of features so that people can at least stop having to speculate.

Yes, I agree. The Kia Stinger should have at LEAST the same options available as an Optima. Let's see what the actual feature list is when all is said and done. I will be as confused as anybody if I can buy an Optima and get more features than I can in a Stinger...

 

[moinmoin]

We've got a little conversation going directly to Kia executives in this section (in case you haven't seen it):

LOL, remember, you started it...and since I am not the only one here with great ideas, why don't you transfer our "collected works" to the "Open Letters", that way everybody here had some input.

 

[Kia Stinger]

I own a 2013 optima sx, so I have spent a lot of time in it.
I haven't driven an accord in years, but did drive a Camry rental car for a few days.
The fusion I drove for 2 weeks was a 2017 titanium.
The interior was fairly nice, still a lot of plastic feeling parts but overall not horrible. The nav screen was a pretty big step above my Kia. The seats seemed to be a lot more comfortable than the optima seats. My optima however is a lot more sporty to drive. Cornering, acceleration, etc is way better than the fusion. It may not be a perfect comparison as my Kia is 4 years old and the fusion was brand new. The 2017 optima interior is a step above my 2013.

Thank you very much for that comparison. So yeah - I can see how the Fusion would have more cheap plastics to allow the Lincoln MKZ an easy advantage. The seats being more comfortable than the Optima's is a surprise but maybe that's a little Lincoln seeping into Ford. I know Lincoln's Navigation setup is pretty good and I imagine Ford gets some of that as well. The Optima is more Sporty - okay - so that's more "Lincoln". I have to imagine the Fusion Sport fixes that (I hope). Cornering, acceleration to the Fusion - okay Lincoln again. The Fusion does have to be a pretty solid car for it to be used as THE midsize car for Ford's luxury brand.

Your Optima being a 2013 is quite a nice car. In my opinion, probably the best non-luxury brand midsize available. And believe me - I am NOT a Kia "fan boy". I really do like the Optima. It's got just about every feature you could want - especially the EX-L and SX-L. Those two go above and beyond any Hyundai Sonata (it's sibling)...

 

[Kia Stinger]

LOL, remember, you started it...and since I am not the only one here with great ideas, why don't you transfer our "collected works" to the "Open Letters", that way everybody here had some input.

That's a good idea. There are three discussions in there right now. Maybe I should put all the requests/points together in a sticky so the executives can see a list without having to click more than once. Now I just need time. I'm so behind in work at the moment...

 

[moinmoin]

Maybe I should put all the requests/points together in a sticky

Yes, that is a good idea, because good ideas get brought out through "conversations", which are very seldom started under the "open letter". So maybe some editing is required and "summaries" posted to the "open letters"?

 

[Kia Stinger]

Yes, that is a good idea, because good ideas get brought out through "conversations", which are very seldom started under the "open letter". So maybe some editing is required and "summaries" posted to the "open letters"?

If more people knew the section existed, more people would use it and it would/could actually become a pretty busy area. That's why I keep mentioning it. I think a lot of people have things they want to say directly to the executives and those things can get so lost in our busy conversations here...

 

[moinmoin]

If more people knew the section existed

If you are in contact with KIA's Consumer Division already, you may be able to persuade them to give us a sign of life.
Ford for example follows the truck forum and interjects when consumers have problems with their dealers, on repair, recall or warranty matters. I have never seen them giving advice, or that ANY complaints were resolved, ever. Leaking 3rd brake lights, leaking rear windows, uncomfortable seats (can you believe that!) etc.
BTW, the seats in various Ford vehicles were the reason I dropped Ford from my list. And I am a share holder, LOL.

Back to treads and how conversations get sidetracked: It's unintentional, spur of the moment and probably typical for a forum. If it turns out to be of interest to the higher ups, mabe you can copy it over to the "letters"?

Treads whose subjects may possibly be of interest to KIA et al should then be started under "open letters"?! It will require a certain discipline and you will still have to direct traffic from time to time.

 

[Kia Stinger]

I'm at the dentist for a cleaning so here's a quick response. The seats in the 2014 Ford Focus felt like wooden benches to me. The leather was rough and the cushion was hard. I think we're still too new for the set of executives at the long rectangle table to all debate and conclude that it would be a good idea to come out of hiding here. So it might be a while before anybody actually presents themselves. I don't mind threads getting sidetracked. It happens everywhere. But if a discussion turns into two separate discussions I'll try to split them to keep things easy for readers to understand.

 

[Bamm1]

I am in alignment with pretty much everything stated on this thread. I blame Kia directly for anyone talking about Accords, Camrys and the like. You put a "features" document on your website that appears to be pretty comprehensive. Then shortly thereafter Honda releases the same information for the new Accord. I happen to read it and am very surprised to see how much Kia has left off in comparison. I should be saying "look at Honda trying to be Kia with all these features for the price".

Maybe.. so then the question becomes would you give up the extra 5 years of power train warranty to save 10k?

The powertrain warranty is not transferable in the US (another plus for VW, as their longer B2B warranty is). So if you sell or trade the car before the 5 year mark, the powertrain warranty ends at the same time as the B2B warranty. So you really have to be in for the long hall with the Stinger for it to be a marked advantage. So I would like to keep my 11k and I will move on from the car after 5 years if I fear there will be "issues".

 

[Charly]

Regarding features: well, yeah, I want 'em all but what I'm really looking for is a balance of features, luxury, and 4 wheeled athleticism. I want to turn the dial and go from roomy, quiet, plush, serene freeway cruiser to flat cornering, tire shredding track monster and I want it for $40K. I want a practical, comfortable driver's car. If in the end I give up a few features, a little luxury, and a little trackability but get a great all-rounder for $50K, then I'm good.

I believe it's best to sit in the car, check out all the features, and take it on a long drive or two before throwing down money on a car that's still something of a cipher as far as what the feature set will be. But I'm also pretty optimistic about it.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Regarding features: well, yeah, I want 'em all but what I'm really looking for is a balance of features, luxury, and 4 wheeled athleticism. I want to turn the dial and go from roomy, quiet, plush, serene freeway cruiser to flat cornering, tire shredding track monster and I want it for $40K. I want a practical, comfortable driver's car. If in the end I give up a few features, a little luxury, and a little trackability but get a great all-rounder for $50K, then I'm good.

I believe it's best to sit in the car, check out all the features, and take it on a long drive or two before throwing down money on a car that's still something of a cipher as far as what the feature set will be. But I'm also pretty optimistic about it.

That's me as well. I'd like to have everything (especially everything I feel I deserve considering the Optima has that) - but it's a good balance that will still satisfy me in the end. When all is said and done - if the Optima has a feature the Stinger doesn't have - the Stinger has a twin turbo V6, rear wheel drive or all wheel drive, launch control, aggressive looks and does the quarter mile in under thirteen seconds. These are things I can't get in any other Kia without extensively modifying and dealing with the issues that go along with doing so - especially in a front wheel drive car with a small engine.

I'm still keeping a couple of fingers crossed hoping the Stinger has everything the Optima EX-L and SX-L has...

 

[ballistic]

i know what the op means here. if you drive a car like the optima on any surface that's bumpy it feels like everything is loose. not broken loose. just not tight. the genesis has a solid feel that you probably won't even be familiar with unless you've driven cars like the bmw 5 or mercedes e. there's just a certain feel with well built cars that luxury buyers appreciate and most others do not. if your car is just a grocery getter and an appliance to get from point a to point b then you don't really care about a car that's firmly planted on the road. if your car is a means of enjoyment on the way to point b from point a, then you appreciate things like a well built suspension.

it's not only that THUMP when you close the door that's important. it's the way the glove compartment opens and closes. it's the way the center arm rest doesn't squeak. it's the way the windshield wipers never make noise during the rain. these are some of the little things that most people really don't care about and the reason why basic cars like the optima and sonata don't focus on these types of experiences for their drivers and passengers.

 

[Charly]

i know what the op means here. if you drive a car like the optima on any surface that's bumpy it feels like everything is loose. not broken loose. just not tight. the genesis has a solid feel that you probably won't even be familiar with unless you've driven cars like the bmw 5 or mercedes e. there's just a certain feel with well built cars that luxury buyers appreciate and most others do not. if your car is just a grocery getter and an appliance to get from point a to point b then you don't really care about a car that's firmly planted on the road. if your car is a means of enjoyment on the way to point b from point a, then you appreciate things like a well built suspension.

it's not only that THUMP when you close the door that's important. it's the way the glove compartment opens and closes. it's the way the center arm rest doesn't squeak. it's the way the windshield wipers never make noise during the rain. these are some of the little things that most people really don't care about and the reason why basic cars like the optima and sonata don't focus on these types of experiences for their drivers and passengers.

I think most drivers are either unable to pay for or unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to pay for the car that stirs their soul. Just performance is not inexpensive and adding some degree of luxury and a quality build puts that car out of reach for many people.