SXTH Element downpipes

[NICK_KHAR]

I remember seeing dyno sheets from Lap3 Showing about 30whp gain
Can definitely feel it in the seat
Havent dynoed ourselves yet

 

[Mr GT-2]

I remember seeing dyno sheets from Lap3 Showing about 30whp gain
Can definitely feel it in the seat
Havent dynoed ourselves yet

Ok cool and what about the check engine light anything to keep that off or do you just have to ride around with it on

 

[NICK_KHAR]

Ok cool and what about the check engine light anything to keep that off or do you just have to ride around with it on

Lap3 Protuner = No CEL for catless

 

[Mr GT-2]

Lap3 Protuner = No CEL for catless

Nice well im running jb4 so probably would have to deal with cel

 

[Toddasaurus]

Nice well im running jb4 so probably would have to deal with cel

Or get an HFC version and use an antifouler for the stock o2 sensors. No CEL.

 

[Mr GT-2]

Or get an HFC version and use an antifouler for the stock o2 sensors. No CEL.

Who has HFC for sale and where can i get the antifouler adapter from?

 

[robz32]

Running jb4 I checked the afr on the app. Looks good. I just did an oil change oil looks good no signs of coolant/water in it.

When I drive regular it’s fine no smoke which is weird only on full throttle.

It’s white smoke, I’m catless all the way! Only happens on full throttle. Do u think it can be fumes that are supposed to be caught by the cats

Your car is fine. Cats are there to capture the soot that gets expelled out when going full throttle. The smoke you are seeing is just the residuals of the combustion gases that did not get burned, which is normal (check any dyno video and pay attention to the exhaust, especially on forced induction setups) usually these unburned gases get trapped by the cats, but since now there is only pipe, they make it outside, some gets splattered on the rear of the car due to aerodynamics when the car is moving and some gets to leave completely.

Some downsides to running catless is the increased exhaust noise, strong smell of exhaust gases when idling or reversing, all these are bi-products of removing the cats as that was their main function.

Ive been catless for nearly year and half now
I was also the test car for the SXTH pipes

Catless will lead to oil seepage from the turbos seals but so far i just fill some oil every so often

Negative. If that were the case, MANY forced induction vehicles that are running catless will have numerous issues.
When a turbo seal starts failing and letting oil on to the turbine housing, via the shaft. You will get constant blue smoke no matter if you are WOT or cruising around. The amount of smoke will increase as the vehicle is used more and more until it becomes just a cloud of smoke even when cruising.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Who has HFC for sale and where can i get the antifouler adapter from?

LAP3 makes their primary downpipes with an available HFC version.

Also, Ultimate Performance makes a Primary and midpipes combo that has HFC's for the primaries, and completely removes the secondary cats.

Antifoulers/non-foulers can be bought at a variety of car performance parts stores, also Amazon and eBay. It's basically just a mini extension pipe for the O2 sensor so it's out of the exhaust stream.

K8 stinger store includes the antifoulers with the U.P. downpipe kit. I would post links, but I don't have that privilege yet on this forum. Sorry!

 

[NICK_KHAR]

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Negative. If that were the case, MANY forced induction vehicles that are running catless will have numerous issues.
When a turbo seal starts failing and letting oil on to the turbine housing, via the shaft. You will get constant blue smoke no matter if you are WOT or cruising around. The amount of smoke will increase as the vehicle is used more and more until it becomes just a cloud of smoke even when cruising.

Not every car/turbo uses the same seals
Blue smoke puffs on decel is a telltale sign of too low of backpressure / oil from turbo seals

 

[robz32]

Turbo seals are very similar from brand to brand.
On deceleration yes, the case Niko was referring to was under WOT.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

If you all must know, I had been quietly discussing the HFC thing with SXTH Element for several weeks and they had sent me some CAD overlaps so we could look at fitment. Their placement of the pre-cat O2 sensor forces the cat to be potentially further down, but the part numbers for cats I sent have dimensions that fit the bill (I sent them both metallic and ceramic models). They're working on the ceramic one because that one's *dun dun dun* much cheaper. It's also supposedly a 400 cell (the metallic model I sent was a 200 cell), so we should have enough back pressure to not be spitting oil with those installed, or at least it will minimize it. It'll reduce the gains compared to no cats obviously, but you're also eliminating the "choke" points in the factory primaries, so my guess is you'll still see a 10WHP gain and more consistent throttle response.

 

[Toddasaurus]

If you all must know, I had been quietly discussing the HFC thing with SXTH Element for several weeks and they had sent me some CAD overlaps so we could look at fitment. Their placement of the pre-cat O2 sensor forces the cat to be potentially further down, but the part numbers for cats I sent have dimensions that fit the bill (I sent them both metallic and ceramic models). They're working on the ceramic one because that one's *dun dun dun* much cheaper. It's also supposedly a 400 cell (the metallic model I sent was a 200 cell), so we should have enough back pressure to not be spitting oil with those installed, or at least it will minimize it. It'll reduce the gains compared to no cats obviously, but you're also eliminating the "choke" points in the factory primaries, so my guess is you'll still see a 10WHP gain and more consistent throttle response.

Nice, thanks for the info! Personally, I wish they'd use the metallic, but even with the 400 cell it will still be an improvement over stock just like you said.

Got my fingers crossed. For me, I'm debating between these and the Lap3 downpipes w/HFC's.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Nice, thanks for the info! Personally, I wish they'd use the metallic, but even with the 400 cell it will still be an improvement over stock just like you said.

Got my fingers crossed. For me, I'm debating between these and the Lap3 downpipes w/HFC's.

Pretty sure stock is also 400 cell. The only real benefit here is getting rid of the choke points in the factory primaries that go down to about 1.75" or something before expanding to the cat, and then choking back down to 1.75" again. The metallic one might withstand the heat a little better, but at 200 cell, you might begin spitting oil. I brought that up with them which is why I had originally requested they offer an HFC version. They were kind enough to email a bit with me back and forth as aforementioned with CAD overlays, so I know they're working on it

 

[Toddasaurus]

Ideally what I want to do is install aftermarket primary downpipes with 200 cell metallic HFC's, along with aftermarket midpipes and weld in my own 200 cell metallic HFC's in the factory location. Essentially I'd be increasing primary and midpipes diameter to 2.5" across the board, and replace all the cats with high flow variants.

I assume having both sets of HFC's in place will give me enough backpressure to avoid overboost CEL's, all while keeping emissions relatively clean, and having a good middle ground in performance - hopefully avoiding any problems.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Ideally what I want to do is install aftermarket primary downpipes with 200 cell metallic HFC's, along with aftermarket midpipes and weld in my own 200 cell metallic HFC's in the factory location. Essentially I'd be increasing primary and midpipes diameter to 2.5" across the board, and replace all the cats with high flow variants.

I assume having both sets of HFC's in place will give me enough backpressure to avoid overboost CEL's, all while keeping emissions relatively clean, and having a good middle ground in performance.

That's a little harder than it sounds: the secondary factory DPs twist in a very special way to accommodate the cats without affecting ground clearance. When you move to 2.5", accomplishing that requires very similar twisting or moving the cats closer to the primary DP connection point in which clearance overall still might be an issue. It might not be worth the hassle compared to the simplicity of a pair of cats on the primaries.

Having said that, I believe someone here has put 200 cell cats on the secondary DPs on a 2.5" diameter pipe, but I would just stick to a single 400 cell on the primary if I had the option. There's not a lot of room to work with cats on the secondary DP which is why you don't see any offerings of secondary DPs with cats I'd know because my secondaries are custom made, so I was down there, lol

 

[Toddasaurus]

That's a little harder than it sounds: the secondary factory DPs twist in a very special way to accommodate the cats without affecting ground clearance. When you move to 2.5", accomplishing that requires very similar twisting or moving the cats closer to the primary DP connection point in which clearance overall still might be an issue. It might not be worth the hassle compared to the simplicity of a pair of cats on the primaries.

Having said that, I believe someone here has put 200 cell cats on the secondary DPs on a 2.5" diameter pipe, but I would just stick to a single 400 cell on the primary if I had the option. There's not a lot of room to work with cats on the secondary DP which is why you don't see any offerings of secondary DPs with cats I'd know because my secondaries are custom made, so I was down there, lol

Good to know and thanks for the info! I was underneath my car 2 days ago and I can understand what you're talking about. I was also considering welding them in closer upstream right where it bolts to the primaries, but I'm not sure there's enough clearance against the body. I figured the original spot would give me the most room, but I would lose a little ground clearance - both by using the larger 2.5, non-flattened/oval aftermarket piping, and by putting in those cats.

That's a little harder than it sounds: the secondary factory DPs twist in a very special way to accommodate the cats without affecting ground clearance. When you move to 2.5", accomplishing that requires very similar twisting or moving the cats closer to the primary DP connection point in which clearance overall still might be an issue. It might not be worth the hassle compared to the simplicity of a pair of cats on the primaries.

Having said that, I believe someone here has put 200 cell cats on the secondary DPs on a 2.5" diameter pipe, but I would just stick to a single 400 cell on the primary if I had the option. There's not a lot of room to work with cats on the secondary DP which is why you don't see any offerings of secondary DPs with cats I'd know because my secondaries are custom made, so I was down there, lol

So, installed some ARK midpipes yesterday and attempted to have some magnaflow 200 cell HFC's welded in place of where the stock cats were, and no go... Not enough room... Damn. Just like you said. Even though the HFC's are relatively short, still can't quite get them in there - or at least this exhaust guy wasn't even interested in trying.

Side by side pic.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

So, installed some ARK midpipes yesterday and attempted to have some magnaflow 200 cell HFC's welded in place of where the stock cats were, and no go... Not enough room... Damn. Just like you said. Even though the HFC's are relatively short, still can't quite get them in there - or at least this exhaust guy wasn't even interested in trying.

Side by side pic.
View attachment 29924

Yea, the factory secondaries are designed very specifically to accommodate cats, and you'll have to lose ground clearance if you want cats on aftermarket ones in which you'll have to put them closer to the front of the piping where it leads up a little. That's a bit close to the primary cats, but if you wanted cats on both... meow?

 

[Toddasaurus]

Yea, the factory secondaries are designed very specifically to accommodate cats, and you'll have to lose ground clearance if you want cats on aftermarket ones in which you'll have to put them closer to the front of the piping where it leads up a little. That's a bit close to the primary cats, but if you wanted cats on both... meow?

Problem with putting them on the upward angle where it's close to the primary cats is that you can no longer access the flange bolts. Also, there isn't enough clearance on the body, it would hit the floorboards.

Anywhere else along the midpipes there just isn't enough clearance against the body. I think the only option is in the factory location, but even that is really tight due to how the ARK pipes are bent. They could have bent/angled them differently to allow the HFC's to fit, but... I don't know.

I have one more shop that might be able to do it. I'll see what they say, hopefully soon.

 

[BertBert2019GT]

I've searched but was unable to find any threads on this, evidently, new product.

SXTH Element is coming out with primary downpipes for the 3.3 Stinger and G70. The price is nice. I want to post a link, but I am unable to because I'm still a noob on this site.

View attachment 29069

I've been trying to get in touch with them about the possibility of getting a set with HFC's, but they haven't answered any of my emails. Anybody here heard anything?

I apologise if this has already been covered.

were you able to get in contact with SXTH Element? Let me know if not

Edit: I dont know how I missed the post they responded.

Is anyone interested in a group buy?

 

[Toddasaurus]

were you able to get in contact with SXTH Element? Let me know if not

Edit: I dont know how I missed the post they responded.

Is anyone interested in a group buy?

Yup, they responded and said that they're looking into the possibility of making an HFC version, but didn't tell me any more.

Problem with putting them on the upward angle where it's close to the primary cats is that you can no longer access the flange bolts. Also, there isn't enough clearance on the body, it would hit the floorboards.

Anywhere else along the midpipes there just isn't enough clearance against the body. I think the only option is in the factory location, but even that is really tight due to how the ARK pipes are bent. They could have bent/angled them differently to allow the HFC's to fit, but... I don't know.

I have one more shop that might be able to do it. I'll see what they say, hopefully soon.

Update: At the second exhaust shop, this guy seems a lot cooler and willing to do custom stuff. He said he thinks he can get the Magnaflow HFC's to fit! He's working on it now. Ill update when it's done - hopefully I can snap a pic of it while the car is still on the lift.