Secret Engine Killer -LSPI- Low Speed Pre-Ignition

[Helo58]

Well, as others have said, pick the low hanging fruit if you haven't already. Start with filling up with a tank of premium at a Shell station (I think their additive package is tops currently). Pull your plugs to see how they look if the gas doesn't fix it. Have you thrown any codes yet? You may want to reinstall the JB4, set to the no boost change map and try and capture this event in the logs when it occurs. As others have said, if you can hear the knock it will show in the logs.

 

[Blamo]

By no means am I an expert, but after reading all your posts I would agree with Helo58 and say to check your plugs. This smells like a misfiring issue, and reinstalling the jb4 would also help with log collection. Good luck!

 

[Chyoon]

Right. Thanks guys.

I actually went back to fully stock (factory plugs), but definitely checked out the plug conditions to make sure everything is okay. I guess I could fill up shell premium but the 2.0L is supposed to be able to run fine on 89 octane, and I use 91 octane from costco, which should l leave me enough "octane room" to not have any issues, right? And for now, no codes. I wish it would throw some codes so it's easier to report....

 

[M'Kehyah]

A lot of good info here. The Hyundai Veloster Turbo community has experienced similar issues endemic to TGDI engines.

For my car, I run premium and always use 'sport' around town and then 'comfort' once on the highway (for fuel economy).
If I need to accelerate hard, I am already downshifting with paddles and then holding the paddle to return to auto afterwards...

If there was a severe pre-ignition issue with our cars (like Veloster Turbo) - we would already be seeing broken sparkplugs and failed engines (crank rod failures) occurring at low speed/low RPM and high load (i.e. accelerating up an entrance ramp or steep hill).

KIA has to ensure >99% of all drivetrains sold go over 100K miles without issue (because warranty work would kill them if they a significant number failed early)... So I trust the KIA engineers on this one...

 

[Tonkabob]

So Costco 91 octane is not a good way to go? Where do you even get top tier gas without additives? And I get my oil change only from the dealer just so I can keep a good record of the maintenance schedule.

Do you see anything in my routines I should fix or adjust? Thanks again.

A local Stinger 3.3 owner was trying to run his new jb4 map 2 on costco 92 and it was running like crap due to low octane. He switched to shell and fixed things. Top tier or not its worth trying somthing else for a tank.

 

[eflyguy]

So Costco 91 octane is not a good way to go? Where do you even get top tier gas without additives?

The additives are what makes it top tier.

Although I generally use Costco premium (93 here), it's because I pay about the same as other stations charge for regular. I have heard from more than one source that you may not be getting what you pay for at Costco.

 

[Metalmania82]

Shell is a very good option if available, the ones out my way even offer 94 octane.
I use Sunoco 93 but I know it's mostly an east coast company so not sure if that's an option for you.

 

[terrelltechsup]

This stuff:

 

[Helo58]

I use Shell because I was told by a petroleum chemist/analyst that they have some of the highest quality control throughout the delivery chain (refinery to pump) and that the Shell formula was superior to other Top Tier companies. I have never purchased Costco gasoline, so I don't know personally if it is any good. For what it is worth, I have also never purchased NY Strip at the dollar store.

 

[Chyoon]

I use Shell because I was told by a petroleum chemist/analyst that they have some of the highest quality control throughout the delivery chain (refinery to pump) and that the Shell formula was superior to other Top Tier companies. I have never purchased Costco gasoline, so I don't know personally if it is any good. For what it is worth, I have also never purchased NY Strip at the dollar store.

I see. My understanding is that Costco gas is considered top tier due to the additives they put in. Also, since the 2.0L (the one that I have) allows down to 89 octane, I should still have some room for the fuel quality issue that some say comes with Costco Gas

After using Techron fuel system cleaner, I feel like the occurrence is much less in frequency, but it still happens. Just disappointing that a car like this suffers from the tendency if self-detonation (lol). A little suicidal car, I got.

 

[Helo58]

I see. My understanding is that Costco gas is considered top tier due to the additives they put in. Also, since the 2.0L (the one that I have) allows down to 89 octane, I should still have some room for the fuel quality issue that some say comes with Costco Gas

After using Techron fuel system cleaner, I feel like the occurrence is much less in frequency, but it still happens. Just disappointing that a car like this suffers from the tendency if self-detonation (lol). A little suicidal car, I got.

I'm not sure of the reasons behind your undying loyalty to Costco gasoline. I think that point that I, and many others were trying to make, is that maybe, JUST MAYBE Costco had put out some bad/contaminated gasoline. An easy and relatively cost effective way to test that theory would be to try some different gasoline for a tank or two. Preferably Shell, BP, or Mobil.

Lastly, without seeing the engine data during the occurrence (perceived knocking) you have no idea WHY it is knocking. If you are not seeing any engine codes to assist in your diagnosis of the problem, logging will be the best way to do this. Other than gasoline octane, things to consider would be running lean due to improper air / fuel mixing (air leak or fuel blockage), improper timing, compression ratio change due to carbon buildup in the cylinder or too thin head gasket, fouled spark plugs, or a bad knock sensor. Almost all of these could be evaluated via logging or cursory inspection of the affected hardware.

 

[Chyoon]

I'm not sure of the reasons behind your undying loyalty to Costco gasoline. I think that point that I, and many others were trying to make, is that maybe, JUST MAYBE Costco had put out some bad/contaminated gasoline. An easy and relatively cost effective way to test that theory would be to try some different gasoline for a tank or two. Preferably Shell, BP, or Mobil.

Lastly, without seeing the engine data during the occurrence (perceived knocking) you have no idea WHY it is knocking. If you are not seeing any engine codes to assist in your diagnosis of the problem, logging will be the best way to do this. Other than gasoline octane, things to consider would be running lean due to improper air / fuel mixing (air leak or fuel blockage), improper timing, compression ratio change due to carbon buildup in the cylinder or too thin head gasket, fouled spark plugs, or a bad knock sensor. Almost all of these could be evaluated via logging or cursory inspection of the affected hardware.

I see what you mean, but all I'm saying is the 2.0L can take as low as 89 octane and fuel quality and distribution is well regulated enough to not have "bad batches." And the weight behind my assertion comes from futilely using an octane booster in addition that didn't solve the problem. At any rate, on my next fuel up, I'm planning on trying shell per your advice.

I appreciate you sharing all those potential causes. The car is still under warranty, so my goal is collect enough data for the dealership to diagnose the issue. The car has just 13k miles, and I'm just looking for ways to minimize my time and money spent on this car that is not quite up to my expectations.

 

[Helo58]

I see what you mean, but all I'm saying is the 2.0L can take as low as 89 octane and fuel quality and distribution is well regulated enough to not have "bad batches." And the weight behind my assertion comes from futilely using an octane booster in addition that didn't solve the problem. At any rate, on my next fuel up, I'm planning on trying shell per your advice.

I appreciate you sharing all those potential causes. The car is still under warranty, so my goal is collect enough data for the dealership to diagnose the issue. The car has just 13k miles, and I'm just looking for ways to minimize my time and money spent on this car that is not quite up to my expectations.

Keep in mind that bad/contaminated gas doesn't only deal with octane rating. It is a possibility that you could have amounts of water or diesel in your gas as well. An octane treatment would do little for this. In any event, I wish you luck. It sucks trying to find the elusive cause for your issue. So many things it could be. Keep us posted to let us know how it pans out.

 

[mandasol]

I see what you mean, but all I'm saying is the 2.0L can take as low as 89 octane and fuel quality and distribution is well regulated enough to not have "bad batches." And the weight behind my assertion comes from futilely using an octane booster in addition that didn't solve the problem. At any rate, on my next fuel up, I'm planning on trying shell per your advice.

I appreciate you sharing all those potential causes. The car is still under warranty, so my goal is collect enough data for the dealership to diagnose the issue. The car has just 13k miles, and I'm just looking for ways to minimize my time and money spent on this car that is not quite up to my expectations.

I'm almost certain your issue is with the GDI fuel pump. I went through the same thing you did and tried different fuels from different brands (I always use 93 octane), changed my plugs, uninstalled K&N intake, went in for all the recalls - even the ECU recall and I was still getting the exact same symptoms you're describing. The only thing left was the fuel pump that was mentioned in several threads and my service adviser said he had never heard of it so they had to contact Kia directly (which apparently is what everyone else experienced) and Kia advised to replace the high pressure GDI fuel pump in the engine. After the fuel pump replacement haven't experienced the issue even once.

 

[Chyoon]

I'm almost certain your issue is with the GDI fuel pump. I went through the same thing you did and tried different fuels from different brands (I always use 93 octane), changed my plugs, uninstalled K&N intake, went in for all the recalls - even the ECU recall and I was still getting the exact same symptoms you're describing. The only thing left was the fuel pump that was mentioned in several threads and my service adviser said he had never heard of it so they had to contact Kia directly (which apparently is what everyone else experienced) and Kia advised to replace the high pressure GDI fuel pump in the engine. After the fuel pump replacement haven't experienced the issue even once.

Hello there again! Thanks for offering some great insights all along.

I think I first have to get the dealership or Kia corporate to even consider looking at my car. When I inquired about any other reports similar to my issues, they responded with the usual "first time hearing." I guess I have to keep collecting data/recordings of this occurence and present a business case for them that it'll cost them more if they don't act on it now.

 

[Kazz]

TOP TIER™ Gasoline Brands

 

[Metalmania82]

When did Wisconsin become it's own country??

Great site for quick info and overview on Top Tier

 

[MisterMac]

The top tier gas at shell is the sane as at Costco. Take some time and follow the delivery trucks around...you'll see.

 

[Helo58]

The delivery trucks have multiple compartments, allowing them to carry many types of gas on the same truck. Also, in addition to the gasoline carried, drivers can add the petroleum brand's "additive package" as he fills the station tank(s) if the additives are not added as it goes on the truck. I have read that Costco adds their additives at the station while others add it as the truck is loaded. Just because it is on the same truck, there is still no guarantee you are getting the exact same gasoline once it is pumped for these two reasons.

 

[Mike T]

Seems to me the Mobil 1 5W-30 oil has all the credentials including SN plus.
That with the Costco top tier fuel and my catch cans suits me fine.
I will use the seafoam in the fuel system and through the intake and maybe through the engine oil (just before an oil change is due at every 6,000 km) also. Worth a try. Currently at 28,000 km and no problems at all.

I use that same oil and fuel combo and no issues. I've had the car for a little over a year and sill have not put 10,000 miles on her yet but I'm real close.