How to avoid side skirt damage lifting a Kia Stinger

[D.J.]

I figured this short vid was worth its own thread.

Seems even some Kia Dealers still manage to damage some owners' side skirts..

When lifting on a hoist, the "feet" or "pads" need to be positioned correctly to avoid damaging the side skirts. It's not difficult, but it does usually require bending down, rather than just kicking the arms under and crossing your fingers.

 

[djerickd]

must watch!

 

[rtv900]

you just have to get the pads on the pinch weld anywhere from front to rear
doesn't even need to be the actual spot they say are the jack points. It won't damage the body as long as the pinch weld is directly above the pad

 

[D.J.]

you just have to get the pads on the pinch weld anywhere from front to rear
doesn't even need to be the actual spot they say are the jack points. It won't damage the body as long as the pinch weld is directly above the pad

Well, mostly. Not all hoists are the same.

If you are not using raised pads, there is the potential for the telescopic portion of the arm to impact the side skirt.



Raised pads - much less risk

 

[Thomby]

So it looks like the hoist feet are flat against the pinch weld, rather than straddling either side of it. Are our pinch welds intended to bear the weight of the car?

I thought the reason for the split in stock scissor jacks, and in rubber hockey puck adapters, was to sidestep the weld itself and lift the car from either side of it (ie within the rectangular cutout), to avoid mangling the pinch welds which is a common issue on other cars.

Or is the split in our jack just to locate the weld? (I'm not sure which bottoms out first, the weld at the bottom of the slot, or the sides)

 

[D.J.]

So it looks like the hoist feet are flat against the pinch weld, rather than straddling either side of it. Are our pinch welds intended to bear the weight of the car?

I thought the reason for the split in stock scissor jacks, and in rubber hockey puck adapters, was to sidestep the weld itself and lift the car from either side of it (ie within the rectangular cutout), to avoid mangling the pinch welds which is a common issue on other cars.

Or is the split in our jack just to locate the weld? (I'm not sure which bottoms out first, the weld at the bottom of the slot, or the sides)

View attachment 87435

The Stingers roadside scissor jack does lift from the BLUE points in this image (adjacent to the actual pinch weld).

Virtually all hoists will lift from the RED arrow (on the pinch weld directly).

Both are perfectly fine, and plenty strong for lifting.

 

[Volfy]

The U-notch on the typical scissor-style jack is mostly there to help lock the top of the jack into the chassis. This greatly stabilizes the scissor jack's only two contact points (top and bottom). Scissor jacks typically have such a narrow footprint that, if the top of it is just a plain flat surface, it could easily slip, buckle, or tip over as you jack the car up.

Regardless of whether the U-notch is deep enough for the top of the scissor jack to make contact with the car body, that pinch weld is what gives that area of the chassis the necessary rigidity to withstand the lifting load. It works the same way as the center web of an I-beam, or a floor joist.

Most large floor jacks have a much wider footprint than a scissor jack, so lifting stability is not an issue. That's why a flat lifting pad works fine. Same applies to hydraulic lifts.

 

[Thomby]

Thanks @D.J. and @Volfy. That's news to me as I learned ages ago to avoid lifting on pinch welds themselves, and have seen plenty mangled by using non-slotted jacks (common on the 90s 300zx, for example).

Next question would be, how far along the pinch welds do you think it maintains enough strength to lift from? Putting a jack and stand side by side results in each being outside the notches (due to the jack stand base and jack body).

I've avoided this because using slotted jack blocks to lift on either side of the pinch weld, they run past the corners of that rectangle cutout in the running board and would lift that flimsy surface (see crude image below). But with flat surfaces on the pinch weld, that won't happen. Thoughts?

 

[JSolo]

Over the last 3 years i've been using this https://www.harborfreight.com/steel-floor-jack-cross-beam-64051.html to lift just inside of the front pinch weld so I can place jack stands AT the pinch welds. Each inner beam is extended to the limit, with the inner most ending up somewhere near the back edge of the front door iirc.

Each "side" of the car is jacked up then stands placed accordingly. Repeat on other side. So far nothing is bent.

 

[rtv900]

So it looks like the hoist feet are flat against the pinch weld, rather than straddling either side of it. Are our pinch welds intended to bear the weight of the car?

I thought the reason for the split in stock scissor jacks, and in rubber hockey puck adapters, was to sidestep the weld itself and lift the car from either side of it (ie within the rectangular cutout), to avoid mangling the pinch welds which is a common issue on other cars.

Or is the split in our jack just to locate the weld? (I'm not sure which bottoms out first, the weld at the bottom of the slot, or the sides)

The pinch weld absolutely will not get mangled unless you take a hammer to it. The rectangular cut out in the body plastic is also meaningless. It just leaves an open space for a jack. The little notches in a jack surface are just there to give some grab like olfy said, otherwise it could really easily slip off, it doesn't actually aid in lifting or anything structural related.

Thanks @D.J. and @Volfy. That's news to me as I learned ages ago to avoid lifting on pinch welds themselves, and have seen plenty mangled by using non-slotted jacks (common on the 90s 300zx, for example).

Next question would be, how far along the pinch welds do you think it maintains enough strength to lift from? Putting a jack and stand side by side results in each being outside the notches (due to the jack stand base and jack body).

I've avoided this because using slotted jack blocks to lift on either side of the pinch weld, they run past the corners of that rectangle cutout in the running board and would lift that flimsy surface (see crude image below). But with flat surfaces on the pinch weld, that won't happen. Thoughts?

same deal, running past the corners of the cut out plastic area is totally fine, I've done it a thousand times, you simply put tiny little indentations on that body plastic that is only visible if you literally lay down under the car and look up. Obviously if keeping everything that perfect is important to you this isn't an option but for me I stack about 30k miles a year on my daily's so worrying about things like that just aren't on my radar.
The pinch weld is a perfectly safe structural rail along the entire length between wheels. All unibody cars are basically the same in that regard.
When I'm working on both wheels I usually put the jack dead center between doors and that way I can plunk stands at each corner to drop onto. Then the whole side of the car comes up nice and square all at once

Manufacturers simply have to state "jack points" in their manuals because they can't talk about things like we are saying in a manual for a general consumer. The average person wouldn't understand what a pinch weld is and might put a jack right next to it and lift up on the bottom surface of the door or something. Kind of like fail videos where some bozo does exactly that and the car gets about 6 inches up and the jack shreds right through half the body on it's way down.

 

[LordKOTL]

Thanks @D.J. and @Volfy. That's news to me as I learned ages ago to avoid lifting on pinch welds themselves, and have seen plenty mangled by using non-slotted jacks (common on the 90s 300zx, for example).

Next question would be, how far along the pinch welds do you think it maintains enough strength to lift from? Putting a jack and stand side by side results in each being outside the notches (due to the jack stand base and jack body).

I've avoided this because using slotted jack blocks to lift on either side of the pinch weld, they run past the corners of that rectangle cutout in the running board and would lift that flimsy surface (see crude image below). But with flat surfaces on the pinch weld, that won't happen. Thoughts?

View attachment 87439

I have a teeter-totter style of lift which holds the car up via the pinch point along a sizable run of the pinch weld--best guess is about 3'-0" long along a rubberized rail that's about 2" wide and flat, and to get the perfect balance point that rail is not perfectly on the jack points.

So far no damage whatsoever. The pinch weld sits on the rail and doesn't embed into the rubber enough to damage the plastic side-skirts. My guess is that the weight of the car on the pinch weld is distributed on both sides of the car, and along that 3'-0" section of the rail, as opposed to a very small jack point which would cause the pinch welds to curl over (happened to me on previous cars with a small 2-ton floor jack without a puck).

I think the amount of interface between the pinch weld/jack point and the car jack/lift plays a role; the more of the car supported on the jack/lift the less of the force on the pinch weld, and thus the less of the risk of damaging something. If it's a little notch like on my old jack, then that's a lot of weight on a small point. Puck, even a flat one, distributes that weight across a larger area and thus less pressure in any location along the lift/car interface.

As for your specific problem, I would think a puck with a shallower slot (or no slot) might be the answer since it would not push in the plastic skirt that much and would engage a longer section of the pinch weld; but that's just my guess. The cross-beam jack @JSolo notes is probably the solution I'd go for (assuming I didn't have my lift) just because there's even more area to lift the car and support it. I'd just recommend going very slow when you first lift it up--just in case.

 

[Volfy]

On the Stinger, the pinch welds at the lifting points are reinforced with a thicker steel belt, so I would stick to those areas when lifting.



As for how to lift the car... I myself rarely ever use my jack stands anymore. To me, a floor jack with wheels 24" apart is far more stable than a jack stand with feet 6" apart. The only caveat is the hydraulic system. I can honest say, in my 35+yrs of using floor jacks, I've yet to see one fail while in use. I've only had one that started developing a slow leak, after some 20yrs of use. Still worked just fine and would hold a lift no problem. I probably could've replaced some o-ring seal and get it 100% again, but... I'm lazy. Replacing it with a brand new faster-pumping floor jack is far easier. Heck, last two of these I bought from Harborfreight were less than $100 each. They've got a wide variety of floorjacks, all very reasonably priced when on sale with huge discounts.

I operated with two floor jacks for the longest time. That worked just fine for 95% of what I needed to do. The older I get though, the more I'm willing to throw a bit of money to make my life easier. So now, I have four. Three 3-ton low-profile and a 1.5-ton aluminum jack (lightweight compact I can take to AutoX/track).

Now, I can already see some people frowning upon getting under the car with floor jack only. I share that concern, to some degree. While I have no problem doing a quick oil change with two floor jacks and wheel chocks, for anything that might taking longer, I simply add a piece of 2x4 cut to length to fit inside each floor jack to act as a safety catch. Even though the likelihood of a catastrophic failure is extremely unlikely, a pile of 2x4s cut to various lengths is cheap insurance. You can buy adjustable one like these, and I might eventually weld up something similar. Realistically, 2x4 works just just fine.

 

[Thomby]

I myself rarely ever use my jack stands anymore. To me, a floor jack with wheels 24" apart is far more stable than a jack stand with feet 6" apart. The only caveat is the hydraulic system

Now, I can already see some people frowning upon getting under the car with floor jack only. I share that concern, to some degree. While I have no problem doing a quick oil change with two floor jacks and wheel chocks, for anything that might taking longer, I simply add a piece of 2x4 cut to length to fit inside each floor jack to act as a safety catch.

I typically lower the car onto the jack stand, then close the jack valve so that it's locked in place a hair below the stand as a fallback. But that means having a solid location for each, vs. trying to shoehorn the edge of the jack alongside the stand in a questionable position...

I have seen those jack+stand combos (where the hydraulic jack essentially lifts the stand into place and its legs lock into notches like a shop lift), but your 2x4 or metal rod idea looks like a solid way to accomplish the same thing.

 

[Volfy]

I keep forgetting to take some pics, but it's not hard to visualize a piece of 2x4 just behind where that Jack Rod is, between the underside of the lifting pad, and just behind the front wheel axle. I got several lengths cut for different lifting heights. I raise the floor jack, slip the 2x4 in, lower the jack just to the point of locking the 2x4 in place. Voila! That sucker ain't going nowhere. It'd take way more than 3-tons to crush that 2x4.

You can fault test it easily, by relaxing all hydraulic pressure out of the floor jack. I've done this more times than I care to remember... when I forget to remove the 2x4.

 

[Thomby]

I keep forgetting to take some pics, but it's not hard to visualize a piece of 2x4 just behind where that Jack Rod is, between the underside of the lifting pad, and just behind the front wheel axle. I got several lengths cut for different lifting heights. I raise the floor jack, slip the 2x4 in, lower the jack just to the point of locking the 2x4 in place. Voila! That sucker ain't going nowhere. It'd take way more than 3-tons to crush that 2x4.

You can fault test it easily, by relaxing all hydraulic pressure out of the floor jack. I've done this more times than I care to remember... when I forget to remove the 2x4.

Interesting, I've always seen a 2x4's vertical load quoted as around 1000 pounds. Now that's for a vertical wall stud (so 8+ feet), and I believe a guideline for the continuous safe load vs. a max limit, so maybe with safety factor it's a couple times that, and a 12" or whatever length a bit more...

 

[Volfy]

Interesting, I've always seen a 2x4's vertical load quoted as around 1000 pounds. Now that's for a vertical wall stud (so 8+ feet), and I believe a guideline for the continuous safe load vs. a max limit, so maybe with safety factor it's a couple times that, and a 12" or whatever length a bit more...

That sounds like buckling for the 1st mode shape of a vertical compression load on a single 8ft or 9ft 2x4 wall stud.

Work the same equation for a 12~18" long piece of 2x4, and the load will be quite different.

 

[rtv900]

Interesting, I've always seen a 2x4's vertical load quoted as around 1000 pounds. Now that's for a vertical wall stud (so 8+ feet), and I believe a guideline for the continuous safe load vs. a max limit, so maybe with safety factor it's a couple times that, and a 12" or whatever length a bit more...

yeah that's buckling
a short piece would probably never buckle, it would likely just crush

 

[theoreck]

Pinchwelds on the Stinger are Weak As Fuk. They will folder over under the vehicles weight. Instead, you MUST use the jack points. They're reinforced @ The Pinchweld. If you try and jack any other spot on the pinch welds, even with Hockey Puck or V notched pads on Jack, they'll still fold under the pressure. Ask me how I know this...

 

[theoreck]

The pinch weld absolutely will not get mangled unless you take a hammer to it. The rectangular cut out in the body plastic is also meaningless. It just leaves an open space for a jack. The little notches in a jack surface are just there to give some grab like olfy said, otherwise it could really easily slip off, it doesn't actually aid in lifting or anything structural related.



same deal, running past the corners of the cut out plastic area is totally fine, I've done it a thousand times, you simply put tiny little indentations on that body plastic that is only visible if you literally lay down under the car and look up. Obviously if keeping everything that perfect is important to you this isn't an option but for me I stack about 30k miles a year on my daily's so worrying about things like that just aren't on my radar.
The pinch weld is a perfectly safe structural rail along the entire length between wheels. All unibody cars are basically the same in that regard.
When I'm working on both wheels I usually put the jack dead center between doors and that way I can plunk stands at each corner to drop onto. Then the whole side of the car comes up nice and square all at once

Manufacturers simply have to state "jack points" in their manuals because they can't talk about things like we are saying in a manual for a general consumer. The average person wouldn't understand what a pinch weld is and might put a jack right next to it and lift up on the bottom surface of the door or something. Kind of like fail videos where some bozo does exactly that and the car gets about 6 inches up and the jack shreds right through half the body on it's way down.

My Stinger is much heavier than "Most Cars" AWD GT2 and the pinchwelds are not safe to jack "Anywhere between the wheels" It can and WILL Fail. Use the Jack Points, or you'll be sorry.

 

[rtv900]

My Stinger is much heavier than "Most Cars" AWD GT2 and the pinchwelds are not safe to jack "Anywhere between the wheels" It can and WILL Fail. Use the Jack Points, or you'll be sorry.

you don't understand the design of a unibody structure and your statement is outright false.
The little folded section bending a little or getting slightly dented is totally meaningless. That's not how the structure works.
If that entire seam were not acting as a structural beam that can support the weight of the vehicle it would literally bend down with a full car of passengers and the doors wouldn't open. That's it's entire design, period.