DIY Brake Fluid change?

[Volfy]

FWIW, the bleed order specified in the service manual just allows you to flush the entire system fastest with the least amount of replacement brake fluid. The first time I bled the Brembos, I just followed the old convention of starting from the farthest corner, the diagonal, then the other diagonal. Works just fine, but I did use up more than 45 Oz. I probably overdid it too at some nipples, stayed on it for good while after the clean fluid has already passed through. It just took a bit of extra time and fluid.

 

[rcorona]

Yes, running on stiffer setting. no issues for me. I'll be up at VIR in March for Track Daze event.

You will have a blast.

Did you run traction and stability control all the way off or just traction? Did you use the paddles or just let the car do its thing in sport mode?

 

[StingertimeNC]

Traction off, stability on. (don't trust my abilities quite yet so I like to have that safeguard.) Stability control kicked in once when I was doing a slight drift and it actually kinda startled me. No real reason to be drifting as that's not the fastest way around the track, but it was fun.

Paddle shifting is way better, although the car doesn't always agree and obey the commands. For instance I may be too far into the throttle, ask for an upshift, and the car's like no, if you are giving it this much gas we want to stay in the lower gear longer.

But in general, getting it down into 2nd or 3rd gear before you come out of the corner allows you to get on the gas fully without causing a downshift and potentially upsetting the traction. Also like to shift at about 6k rpm's if not a hair sooner to keep the boost flowing. I also have the kickdown switch blocker from BMS, which helps me control it a little better.

It takes so much damn practice though. I still have so much to learn.

 

[Volfy]

Traction off, stability on. (don't trust my abilities quite yet so I like to have that safeguard.) Stability control kicked in once when I was doing a slight drift and it actually kinda startled me. No real reason to be drifting as that's not the fastest way around the track, but it was fun.

Paddle shifting is way better, although the car doesn't always agree and obey the commands. For instance I may be too far into the throttle, ask for an upshift, and the car's like no, if you are giving it this much gas we want to stay in the lower gear longer.

But in general, getting it down into 2nd or 3rd gear before you come out of the corner allows you to get on the gas fully without causing a downshift and potentially upsetting the traction. Also like to shift at about 6k rpm's if not a hair sooner to keep the boost flowing. I also have the kickdown switch blocker from BMS, which helps me control it a little better.

It takes so much damn practice though. I still have so much to learn.

As with AutoX events, I turned both TC and SC off at my last Track Day. Even then, the car still doesn't turn off ALL the electronic nannies entirely but does keep interference to a minimum. It is definitely possible for the tail to hang out or for the car to swap ends. I've done both at AutoXs. Even with JB4 on Map1/2, the 2.0T doesn't make enough power to get unwieldy. The LSD from a G70 6MT I swapped in helps too powering out of corners.

I agree paddle shifting is way better. On my 2.0T, it is just about an absolute must. Otherwise, upshift delay will conspire with turbo lag to kill momentum dead.

 

[rcorona]

Traction off, stability on. (don't trust my abilities quite yet so I like to have that safeguard.) Stability control kicked in once when I was doing a slight drift and it actually kinda startled me. No real reason to be drifting as that's not the fastest way around the track, but it was fun.

Paddle shifting is way better, although the car doesn't always agree and obey the commands. For instance I may be too far into the throttle, ask for an upshift, and the car's like no, if you are giving it this much gas we want to stay in the lower gear longer.

But in general, getting it down into 2nd or 3rd gear before you come out of the corner allows you to get on the gas fully without causing a downshift and potentially upsetting the traction. Also like to shift at about 6k rpm's if not a hair sooner to keep the boost flowing. I also have the kickdown switch blocker from BMS, which helps me control it a little better.

It takes so much damn practice though. I still have so much to learn.

That’s all great advice man thank you. I assume I’ll run the same traction control setup

 

[ElChanclo]

Went with Motul RBF 660.

How are you liking the RBF 660, and how often do you bleed your brakes?

 

[Ah GetFd]

OK, so I ran three GM vehicle since new. One for 22 years. One for 21 years. One for 14 years. I never changed the brake fluid. I also never bled the brakes. When I fitted new pads I would simply wind the pistons back with a G Clamp.

If it is not broken don't fix it.

Brake fluid never needs to be changed unless there has been a leak. This is programed maintenance by dealers and I can assure you many dealers never bleed your brakes on the scheduled service and why would they?

They introduce new problems

LEAVE IT ALONE

If it is not broken. If the brakes work fine. Don't FIX IT.

 

[JSolo]

^^With that logic, why bother changing the engine oil, trans fluid, coolant, or any other fluid...

 

[ElChanclo]

LEAVE IT ALONE

If it is not broken. If the brakes work fine. Don't FIX IT.

Relevant user name.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Why change engine oil? Because it is used to reduce friction and becomes contaminated.

Brake fluid does not become contaminated unless you do stupid things to it.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Relevant user name.

Elchanco means what

 

[StingertimeNC]

I probably have 8 or so track days on the new fluid. Works great as far as I can tell. Cars being tracked should have high temp fluid and better brake pads. I went to bleed the fluid after about 8k miles and all the track days, and saw no visible evidence of any air in the lines and only the slightest discoloration in the fluid. I only bled the front brakes.

Better safe than sorry.

I am by no means an expert in this area, just going by the advice of other fellow track drivers.

I suspect if you are only drivng on the street, then following mfr. recommendations is the way to go.

 

[LordKOTL]

OK, so I ran three GM vehicle since new. One for 22 years. One for 21 years. One for 14 years. I never changed the brake fluid. I also never bled the brakes. When I fitted new pads I would simply wind the pistons back with a G Clamp.

If it is not broken don't fix it.

Brake fluid never needs to be changed unless there has been a leak. This is programed maintenance by dealers and I can assure you many dealers never bleed your brakes on the scheduled service and why would they?

They introduce new problems

LEAVE IT ALONE

If it is not broken. If the brakes work fine. Don't FIX IT.

I mostly agree. I had one car for 8 years and never touched the brake fluid. It always braked fine and the fluid always looked good. I used the C-clamp trick on the calipers, too, to keep the system as closed as reasonably possible.

My next car had one caliper start leaking. The replacement caliper started leaking like a sieve a week later. Flushed and bled the system a few times there (and got a working caliper)

If the brakes cook the fluid I'd also err towards changing the fluid, but if the system stays closed and you're just getting groceries, you should be okay. Common sense IMHO. If you're worried about the brake fluid, no harm in changing it (if done right). Aside from that? Follow the manual.

 

[Ah GetFd]

.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

I have been great believer of there being over servicing with dealerships. They plan this out. Change the diff oil at xxx kms. Change the brake fluid at xxx kms. There is no need unless it is contaminated or there has been a repair or leak.

Engine oil yes because it is friction based. It fills up with iron or aluminum filings.

I ran three GM vehicles and home serviced them rigidly at the service intervals since new.

I put two into a GM dealership for random transmission checks after 10 years. Both had pristine filters. The diffs were not opened in 21 and 22 years. The brake fluid was never changed. The 14 year G8 V8 was traded like brand new. Engine oil only. No diff, transmission or Brake fluid was ever touched.

People just get conditioned to pointless servicing. If it not broken Don't fix it.

Engine oil is friction based, and transmission and differential are not??? And dont forget transfer case. Awd stinger has one.You throwing those years of ownership without mentioning the miles. If I drive my stinger for 20 years, it will have 700k miles on it. And I know, it wont get to 700k without those "pointless " servicing.

 

[JSolo]

^^Say it aint so!

 

[bfglitch]

I've had my fair share of vehicles. Most I never really bothered flushing brake fluid simply because I just didn't know better. I also used the clamp technique to bottom out the caliper piston to swap out pads so never introduced air to the system. That said I DID have issues with my 2000 Sebring brake lines eventually developing random pinhole leaks due to corrosion from water being pulled into the system. So the argument "The system was never exposed to air" I can say from experience isn't a valid argument. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It absorbs water. Even you removing the cap to the brake fluid reservoir exposes it to air which can cause it to absorb water. Also consistent heat cycling (braking/cooling) can also significantly degrade the fluid.

Now if you're just driving to the grocery store and back home it's probably not going to be much of a problem. But "spirited" driving will definitely take a toll on the brake fluid over the lifetime of the car.

Also the argument "If it's not broke, don't fix it" isn't exactly the best argument for not changing fluids. Coolant degrades and can become corrosive, Transmission fluid degrades and picks up small metal filings (and yes it is used as a lubricant and coolant) as well as hydraulic purposes, Differential fluid is also a lubricant for metal against metal surfaces. Just because these systems haven't failed (or haven't failed in your previous cars), doesn't mean there could be imminent failure in 60k+ miles (or rounding up to 100k+ KM).

Each manufacturer designs their systems differently. Just because you were able to neglect your car from one manufacturer doesn't mean you can neglect it in another.

Bottom line, if I'm paying $45,000+ for a vehicle, spending a couple hundred per year (more every few years) is a drop in a bucket compared to running the risk of a major failure.

 

[Volfy]

Most brake fluids (DOT3 and 4) are hydroscopic, which means they absorb moisture from the air. When that happens, the moisture contamination gradually reduces the boiling point of the brake fluid from Dry Boiling Point to its Wet Boiling Point. If you don't ever drive your car hard and so don't used your brakes much, you might not ever be able to tell the difference. However, get onto a race track and go all out for the 20min sessions, and your brakes will get hot enough to rise above the wet boiling point. When that happens, your brakes go in vapor lock and you are gonna be in a world of hurt.

My last track day, the brakes got hot enough to cook the plastic hub centric rings that came with my Enkei TFR wheels. They just disintegrated when I took the wheels off. No biggie. I bought aluminum hub centric rings to replace them. I was, however, very glad I ran the event with brand new high-temp DOT4 brake fluid in the system.

Same thing might happen if you drive in mountainous terrain and you ride your brakes downhill, instead of engine brake.

In addition to reduced boiling point, excessive moisture in the brake fluid will also corrode internal parts, if left unflushed long enough.

we are all big boys. Nobody needs to be told what to do with your own car. Run it however you see fit. And take the risk(s) at your own peril.

 

[ElChanclo]

I ran the event with brand new high-temp DOT4 brake fluid in the system.

Which DOT4 fluid did you go with?

 

[Volfy]

Which DOT4 fluid did you go with?

Higher Dry Boiling Point than spec DOT4 (min 446F), but not as expensive as the typical racing fluids, which has the trade-off of being even more hydroscopic than spec DOT4, which means needing more frequent replacement. I don't run mine hard enough to warrant that. At least not just yet.