3.3TT Spinning the tires on my AWD GT2. Is it bad to do this?

[St1nger Guy]

As the title says, I just learned today that with current level of power I have after doing a bunch of mods, I can actually drift the car when it's in sport mode. Scared me at first, but then I thought hey, this is really fun. Then I remembered AWD isn't supposed to do that and immediately only did it 1 more time.

Due to the nature of how the AWD on the Stinger can be rear biased does that mean the front and rear wheels can spin independently of each other and that's OK? I tried looking up the type of AWD system the Stinger has but nothing came up except that it's brake based. That also tells me it's OK for the wheels to spin at different speeds. I don't plan on drifting the car hardly ever but if for some reason the occasion arises (we all have those moments) I just want to know I'm not doing permanent damage to the AWD system or the transmission. In the KIA demo events on YouTube they were really pushing the car hard and spinning tires even with the AWD version which really tells me this is probably not a big deal. That or KIA replaces the AWD systems in their demo vehicles frequently.

 

[eflyguy]

Hasn't hurt mine after 6000 miles. Did a crapload of it this week on the Dragon and similar roads without issue. Tires are getting close to being done, though.

I've only once managed to get it so much out of shape that what felt like the "nannies" (ESC?) kicked in while in sport mode, and it probably saved my ass.

 

[Manaz]

It's technically illegal in many jurisdictions to break traction on a public road, but there's no technical reason why an AWD car can't or shouldn't do it more than a RWD or FWD car. It's potentially harder to do (because you have to break traction at all four wheels, not just two), but there's nothing inherently weak about an AWD drivetrain in this regard.

The AWD isn't brake-biased, that's traction control (rather than the AWD having an LSD like the RWD cars do).

 

[St1nger Guy]

Lots of things are illegal, usually the fun stuff. The torque vectoring on the Stinger is brake based, I should have specified that's what I meant. I have read some things where they say you have to change all 4 tires at the same time on AWD vehicles because if you don't it will cause the tires to rotate at different speeds and it can mess up the AWD system. If that is true for the Stinger I would also think that spinning the rear tires and not the fronts would also be bad. I don't think my front tires are breaking loose, it's only the rears. I'm in the car though and can only go by where I hear the squealing coming from. I cannot imagine even with mods that we will get all 4 tires spinning at once for any length of time. I was cooking the rear tires for a good second or two and could have kept going. Just put it in sport mode, turn the wheel a little and mash it while going slow (15MPH?) and the rear end kicks out. I think I could probably do drive pavement donuts in the thing now.

 

[eflyguy]

I can break and spin the rear end without losing the front at will. I don't have to break all four wheels.

Thinking about it, that's probably something to do with the front/rear bias while in sport mode. I do not believe I have ever broken the rear traction in comfort mode.

 

[St1nger Guy]

I can break and spin the rear end without losing the front at will. I don't have to break all four wheels.

Thinking about it, that's probably something to do with the front/rear bias while in sport mode. I do not believe I have ever broken the rear traction in comfort mode.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've never done it in comfort mode either now that you mention it. That makes sense now.

 

[eflyguy]

As to difference in front/rear wheel speed, that's just for extended periods, like if you had tires with different diameters that would cause constant loading on the transfer gears for thousands of miles. Even drifting all day would unlikely cause any issue.

 

[Shrikecorp]

Albert Biermann calls it playful, so do I. This is the fun zone.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

If you pitch this card hard and floor it you get I nice break and then the nannies kick in. This car hooks. With more power it will still hook. I have rwd. Best drift car was an 04 M3 w/ a supercharger. You could text message and drift. Had SMG w/paddles. Stinger is the epitome of high tech, this car does everything imaginable to fix bad driving. Different. M3 motor much higher reving, not much down low. The 3.3 TT reminds me of a V8 powerband.

This isn't really a drift car, but what do I know?

 

[Dr_jitsu]

One thing I will say: I've seen a lot of guys break their 4wd when they started putting a lot of power down.

 

[Manaz]

Generally, AWD cars break transmissions and clutches at high power levels because they have twice the grip on driven wheels as RWD.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Albert Biermann calls it playful, so do I. This is the fun zone.

I think Biermann meant the handling in the rear, and wasn't talking about breaking traction.

 

[AV8R]

I think it comes down to how much cash you have for a new set of tires! Lol

 

[Eric Arroyo]

with current level of power I have after doing a bunch of mods, I can actually drift the car when it's in sport mode.

My question is... What mods have you done to achieve this? I haven't done any mods to mine yet, but I've been starting to research it.

 

[Shrikecorp]

I think Biermann meant the handling in the rear, and wasn't talking about breaking traction.

Having driven my old A8 fairly aggressively (for a tank as long as a football field), I MUCH prefer a playful rear end (...wait...um, the car) to a front end that likes to push. That can make for exceedingly puckery moments.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Having driven my old A8 fairly aggressively (for a tank as long as a football field), I MUCH prefer a playful rear end (...wait...um, the car) to a front end that likes to push. That can make for exceedingly puckery moments.

I'm pretty sure I haven't felt "front end push" (oversteer) yet. I've experienced understeer: especially when I changed the Michelins to Nitto Motivo UHP A/S. Since putting in the Eibach rear sway bar and changing to TSW "Watkins" rims with the Michelins, I have not experienced understeer again. I haven't pushed beyond .8 G in a sustained turn. These are Sport mode (20/80 front/rear bias) "experiments": although my worst experience with understeer was actually in Custom when I had everything set to Sport but Engine/trans, which was in Eco (so, 50/50 power split?) on the Motivos.

 

[Shrikecorp]

I'm pretty sure I haven't felt "front end push" (oversteer) yet. I've experienced understeer: especially when I changed the Michelins to Nitto Motivo UHP A/S. Since putting in the Eibach rear sway bar and changing to TSW "Watkins" rims with the Michelins, I have not experienced understeer again. I haven't pushed beyond .8 G in a sustained turn. These are Sport mode (20/80 front/rear bias) "experiments": although my worst experience with understeer was actually in Custom when I had everything set to Sport but Engine/trans, which was in Eco (so, 50/50 power split?) on the Motivos.

Slight correction...understeer is the push behavior. When you dive into a corner and rather than head the desired direction the front end just keeps plowing straight ahead. It can generally be corrected before you die, but ugh.

Oversteer is the opposite. I like controllable oversteer any time. Most outrageous oversteer I've sampled was driving a friend's '78 (or '77, I forget) 930 Turbo. The rear of that car really, REALLY wanted to be in front...and that's what happened. No harm done, but he didn't hand over the keys again.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Slight correction...understeer is the push behavior. When you dive into a corner and rather than head the desired direction the front end just keeps plowing straight ahead. It can generally be corrected before you die, but ugh.

Oversteer is the opposite. I like controllable oversteer any time. Most outrageous oversteer I've sampled was driving a friend's '78 (or '77, I forget) 930 Turbo. The rear of that car really, REALLY wanted to be in front...and that's what happened. No harm done, but he didn't hand over the keys again.

Yeah, something akin to dyxlesia ( ) got me on that one. The way I've kept them straight in the past (and these two terms are anything but intuitive to me for some reason, from the first time I heard them) is to imagine the steering wheel suddenly turning tighter than you want or intend, creating "oversteer"; and the opposite is you find your "right amount" of steering taking you wide, which means that you "understeered". I don't know why this failed me this time. Man.

"Controllable oversteer" is counter intuitive to me. I see it demonstrated in videos, e.g. doing a thread the cones routine. But just watching it freaks me out. Feeling it freaked me out.

I'd rather feel understeer and then tighten the wheel. And yet I know that this is precisely what killed Jim Clark, Piers Courage and how many other drivers who steered wide and left the road, i.e. not enough time to steer tighter and stay in control, and they either slid off or pulled the wheel too hard too late, spun out and died.

 

[Callum]

10,000 miles...second set of back tires.

Let me tell you, the AWD will drift on the track. It's tough on the street due to the speeds but I casually get the rear end out on the street. Don't think I'm rippin' ass down the road but it's pretty easy to get this thing to rotate on my street I work on.

 

[Shrikecorp]

10,000 miles...second set of back tires.

Let me tell you, the AWD will drift on the track. It's tough on the street due to the speeds but I casually get the rear end out on the street. Don't think I'm rippin' ass down the road but it's pretty easy to get this thing to rotate on my street I work on.

Yep...if you just give the wheel a little snap while turning under power...whee