Oil circulation after storage

[me73]

My GT2 has been in storage for 5 months so I wanted to circulate the oil before starting the car. I pulled the 15A "sensor 1" fuse in the engine bay. It's described as the fuel pump fuse. Pushed the start button and the car started right up and ran great. No warning lights on the dash or anything. So, so much for circulating oil before starting.

Does anyone have a way of turning over the engine to circulate oil without starting it that actually works?

 

[Thomby]

It's described as the fuel pump fuse

Well remember what directly feeds the engine is the (mechanical) high pressure fuel pump, so as long as all the fuel between the tank/low pressure pump and the engine hadn't leaked down while the car sat, I guess the HPFP was able to pull fuel just fine.

In a port-injected car, you could just disconnect the fuel line in the engine bay and release any remaining pressure, but I'm not sure what running a direct injection HPFP dry would do. Probably ok for a quick crank.

I don't recall how accessible the fuel injector connectors are, but you could just pull the coil pack connectors. It would probably throw lots of errors and send a bit of fuel down the exhaust, but shouldn't hurt anything with just a brief crank.

 

[Snicklefritz]

I guess that I don't understand the concern here, or what you were expecting to happen by just pulling a fuse.

Sitting for five months is kind of an "eyeblink" in fluid life time, and for certain no engine is going to have oil coating "dry up" as it were in that time or a lot longer.

The car is still effectively new as far as seals and gaskets and belts goes. It takes years of sitting to compromise those, i.e., before they age enough to leak or crack.

Your battery obviously made it through the five months of hibernation.

If you let the RPMs drop after starting, you can drive immediately. And after sitting that long just go easy until everything is at operating temps.

 

[Thomby]

I guess that I don't understand the concern here, or what you were expecting to happen by just pulling a fuse.

He wanted to crank it without firing, which would pump oil around without the load/heat/intensity of ignition.

Engine builders often use a power drill to turn the oil pump and circulate oil through the passages before the first fire, and track guys use Accusump oil accumulators (which normally act as a buffer to prevent high-G corners from starving the engine) to prime the system before startup.

 

[Snicklefritz]

He wanted to crank it without firing, which would pump oil around without the load/heat/intensity of ignition.

Engine builders often use a power drill to turn the oil pump and circulate oil through the passages before the first fire, and track guys use Accusump oil accumulators (which normally act as a buffer to prevent high-G corners from starving the engine) to prime the system before startup.

And pulling a fuse might have let the engine turn over without starting?? Or am I still not understanding what was tried?

And this because of five months of inactivity? An excess of caution out of fear that the internals are no longer coated in lubricants?

 

[me73]

And pulling a fuse might have let the engine turn over without starting?? Or am I still not understanding what was tried?

And this because of five months of inactivity? An excess of caution out of fear that the internals are no longer coated in lubricants?

@Thomby explains it perfectly. Oil slowly drains off surfaces and over extended periods of time, the oil layer that protects components from contact becomes thinner and thinner. Cranking the engine before the forces of combustion are introduced injects the oil onto these surfaces under much lighter loads. This creates the thick oil layer before putting forces on the engine reducing wear, especially in the bearings. It's been said many times that most engine wear occurs when starting. This is why.

One man's "excess caution" is another's preventative maintenance.

I had an Aston Martin that had a feature that allowed you to crank the engine without activating the injectors by pressing the gas pedal fully while pressing the start button. It would be nice if all cars did that.

 

[Thomby]

And pulling a fuse might have let the engine turn over without starting?

Pulling the fuel pump fuse, in a traditional port injection car, could keep fuel from reaching/pressurizing the injectors, since the only pump is in the gas tank. Our cars also have a high pressure fuel pump that's turned mechanically by the engine, so it was able to pressurize fuel from the lines and start the car.

And this because of five months of inactivity? An excess of caution out of fear that the internals are no longer coated in lubricants?

The internals will have an oil film, but there's no pressure, all the oil channels have long drained, the oil is ~150 degrees below operating temp, and clearances are outside operating conditions, all of which contribute to increased wear at cold start.

In a perfect world you'd preheat the block & oil, inject it under pressure, and then fire it (what F1 cars do), but some guys settle for spinning the oil pump a few seconds before combustion.

 

[me73]

Well remember what directly feeds the engine is the (mechanical) high pressure fuel pump, so as long as all the fuel between the tank/low pressure pump and the engine hadn't leaked down while the car sat, I guess the HPFP was able to pull fuel just fine.

In a port-injected car, you could just disconnect the fuel line in the engine bay and release any remaining pressure, but I'm not sure what running a direct injection HPFP dry would do. Probably ok for a quick crank.

I don't recall how accessible the fuel injector connectors are, but you could just pull the coil pack connectors. It would probably throw lots of errors and send a bit of fuel down the exhaust, but shouldn't hurt anything with just a brief crank.

I wonder what the fuse that's marked for the fuel pump even does.

 

[Thomby]

I wonder what the fuse that's marked for the fuel pump even does.

I'm guessing it's for the low pressure pump that sends gas from the tank to the high pressure pump. Did you run the car very long with it pulled, or just briefly? I'm guessing it would've died once the HPFP exhausted whatever fuel was already near it.

 

[me73]

I'm guessing it's for the low pressure pump that sends gas from the tank to the high pressure pump. Did you run the car very long with it pulled, or just briefly? I'm guessing it would've died once the HPFP exhausted whatever fuel was already near it.

Maybe, I ran it for about 30 seconds.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Maybe, I ran it for about 30 seconds.

By then, before then, everything internal was fully lubed up, and that's about the point where the RPMs drop. Your not angsting that because you couldn't cold crank your engine after five months of sitting that you ruined something, are you?

 

[me73]

By then, before then, everything internal was fully lubed up, and that's about the point where the RPMs drop. Your not angsting that because you couldn't cold crank your engine after five months of sitting that you ruined something, are you?

No, not at all. I'm just interested in minimizing wear effects over the decade or so that I'll probably own this car. I do it with several cars every spring.

 

[Snicklefritz]

No, not at all. I'm just interested in minimizing wear effects over the decade or so that I'll probably own this car. I do it with several cars every spring.

Are you looking for a work around so that you can cold crank the Stinger? Or is it not possible?

 

[Ah GetFd]

If you did this once it's no different to diagnosing a car with an issue.

But prolonged cranking without starting would be a feature on the car from the factory if it was a good idea.

When you stop an engine most oil drains back to the sump but you will still have some oil above piston rings and in various other places for the very reason that you don't want wear on starting.

Oil technology is there for that reason OW40, 10W40 etc. For cold starting.

There are a whole stack of reasons why you want the engine to start quickly and they do. It gets the oil around the engine quickly. If it's cranking a long time before starting it's another problem.

Pushing raw fuel into the catalytic converter is something they want to avoid. When cranking without starting fuel injectors inject raw fuel that washes oil away. You also flood the engine.

When the engine doesn't start you discharge the battery more. It requires more work for the alternator to recharge it the next start. The alternator runs under load longer. You use the starter motor more. These over time are all wear items and a good argument against Stop Start technology that prematurely wears everything from starter motors to batteries.

Raw fuel into a catalytic converter is a big problem. Fuel combusts in the converter causing over heating, cracking, premature failure.

Don't you think manufacturers would have a feature that delayed ignition if it improved wear?

Would it be a better idea to drain the oil out and put new oil in after 5 months if you were worried about it? Oil goes in the top....

 

[me73]

If you did this once it's no different to diagnosing a car with an issue.

But prolonged cranking without starting would be a feature on the car from the factory if it was a good idea.

When you stop an engine most oil drains back to the sump but you will still have some oil above piston rings and in various other places for the very reason that you don't want wear on starting.

Oil technology is there for that reason OW40, 10W40 etc. For cold starting.

There are a whole stack of reasons why you want the engine to start quickly and they do. It gets the oil around the engine quickly. If it's cranking a long time before starting it's another problem.

Pushing raw fuel into the catalytic converter is something they want to avoid. When cranking without starting fuel injectors inject raw fuel that washes oil away. You also flood the engine.

When the engine doesn't start you discharge the battery more. It requires more work for the alternator to recharge it the next start. The alternator runs under load longer. You use the starter motor more. These over time are all wear items and a good argument against Stop Start technology that prematurely wears everything from starter motors to batteries.

Raw fuel into a catalytic converter is a big problem. Fuel combusts in the converter causing over heating, cracking, premature failure.

Don't you think manufacturers would have a feature that delayed ignition if it improved wear?

Would it be a better idea to drain the oil out and put new oil in after 5 months if you were worried about it? Oil goes in the top....

I really don't understand your point here. Sorry.

 

[Ah GetFd]

My point was a lot of things go on in cars that cause wear and manufacturers probably have a lot of this sorted.

I see where the suggestion is the engine is devoid of oil after 5 months and turning it over first before ignition might seem like it reduces wear.

Not sure how it does that but the ramifications of not letting an engine do as it is intended will see other issues popping up.


Its designed to start

 

[Thomby]

I don't see how this is so confusing...cranking an engine without firing it spins the oil pump, circulating oil throughout the car without the bearing loads, piston side loads, and heat of the power stroke. It's long been a common way to "prime" engines that sit for long periods between runs, have tight tolerances and high performance, etc.

@me73 provided an example of this even being a factory feature in some Aston Martins (which probably have larger incidences of being stored for winter etc). And regarding draining and refilling the engine before running, several race series do this. F1 injects heated & pressurized oil, while Indy & NASCAR circulate & pressurize the oil before the engine cranks.

Accusump-type accumulators have been used to prime "road & track" cars since at least the 1970s.

 

[me73]

My point was a lot of things go on in cars that cause wear and manufacturers probably have a lot of this sorted.

I see where the suggestion is the engine is devoid of oil after 5 months and turning it over first before ignition might seem like it reduces wear.

Not sure how it does that but the ramifications of not letting an engine do as it is intended will see other issues popping up.


Its designed to start

@Thomby and I have explained this in at least 5 posts here at this point.