Midrange speakers to underseat subs

[cbr629]

Has anyone swaped out the subwoofers under the seat to mid ranges speakers? I'm looking for more sounds since the bass speakers suck!

 

[socalvn]

Interesting idea, proberly need to measure ohms to see what range signal there getting

 

[Ah GetFd]

Well......the subs are there for a reason. They were never intended to emit sound.

They provide air pressure for want of a better word. Being electrical rather than audio I would say what is fed to those subs under the seats is very low frequency and probably won't drive any sound emitting "speakers" anyway. Over to the audio experts..........

 

[cbr629]

I would drive a small amp and bypass the factory one. It seems like these have little sound and I wanted to see if anyone successfully swapped them out to get more over all sound instead of just low frequencies

 

[squiers007]

The underset subwoofers are crossed over around 45hz meaning they are only playing the very lowest of bass notes, and they do not do that particularly well. Swapping the stock drivers out for what you are calling "mid range" speakers will likely have no discernible impact on the sound. If you want more bass your best option is to install a separate amp and subwoofer in the back. It's super easy to grab the signal in these cars and with the battery being in the back powering the amp is a breeze.

 

[cbr629]

So I was able to put a 8 inch shallow midrange speaker for more over all sound and it's amazing! I bypassed the stock amp and it's loud enough to ride with the windows down on the road and still hear it clear!

 

[socalvn]

So I was able to put a 8 inch shallow midrange speaker for more over all sound and it's amazing! I bypassed the stock amp and it's loud enough to ride with the windows down on the road and still hear it clear!

That's great how did you bypass the Amp?

 

[D.J.]

So I was able to put a 8 inch shallow midrange speaker for more over all sound and it's amazing! I bypassed the stock amp and it's loud enough to ride with the windows down on the road and still hear it clear!

Doesn't the midrange get significantly muffled by the seat?


Was that the only change you made? Adding midrange and removing the subs?

 

[cbr629]

That's great how did you bypass the Amp?

I added a sub box with a separate amp and these give more mid bass plus cleaner vocals and the stock speakers still use the factory amp

 

[cbr629]

Doesn't the midrange get significantly muffled by the seat?


Was that the only change you made? Adding midrange and removing the subs?

No there is no muffled from the seat the voice is louder and clearer and I have a separate amp for my box and the midrange speakers

 

[Volfy]

There is so much wrong with the premise of the thread...

The sound that subwoofers play are very low frequency (typically considered <80Hz). At those low freq's, the wave lengths are so long, the subwoofer cones are not really emitting sound waves, so much as they compress (and decompress) the air volume inside the cabin. There are two implications to this:

1. If you want the most out of your auto-sound subs, you should always close ALL your windows and sunroofs. The enclosed air volume inside the car cabin allows the subwoofers to compress the air much more effectively. This is known as acoustic room gain. Done well, this can achieve as much as 6-9db gain in your sub-bass frequencies.

2. The very low frequencies are effectively non-directional, which is why you can pretty much put the sub drivers anywhere. Again, they only generate sound PRESSURE, not really emit sound waves that propagate linearly and directionally. The flip side of this is that the higher the frequency, the more directional the sound waves become. Typically above about 120Hz, most listeners can start to locate the source of the sound pressure. By the time you get into human voice range (> 1k Hz), human ear can very easily directionally pin-point the sound source. So... you DO NOT want to stuff your mid-range drivers under your seat. That will screw up your stereo image. In fact, if you want the optimum front soundstage, the front midranges need to be phase-coupled to the tweeters they are cross-overed with. That usually means - at the very least - they need to be in close proximity to each other. Driver placement gets far more nuanced than that, but suffice it to say... stuffing mid-range drivers under your seats are about as dumb as it gets.

3. Most mid-range drivers, even if they are as large as some smaller subs, are generally not designed to generate the lower sub-range frequencies. The low end roll-off are either early/sharp, or gets rather choppy and not smooth. You need to qualify they properly, before you press them into doing subwoofer duty.

I'm hoping the OP just used the wrong term, and not actually doing what I think he's doing.

 

[cbr629]

There is so much wrong with the premise of the thread...

The sound that subwoofers play are very low frequency (typically considered <80Hz). At those low freq's, the wave lengths are so long, the subwoofer cones are not really emitting sound waves, so much as they compress (and decompress) the air volume inside the cabin. There are two implications to this:

1. If you want the most out of your auto-sound subs, you should always close ALL your windows and sunroofs. The enclosed air volume inside the car cabin allows the subwoofers to compress the air much more effectively. This is known as acoustic room gain. Done well, this can achieve as much as 6-9db gain in your sub-bass frequencies.

2. The very low frequencies are effectively non-directional, which is why you can pretty much put the sub drivers anywhere. Again, they only generate sound PRESSURE, not really emit sound waves that propagate linearly and directionally. The flip side of this is that the higher the frequency, the more directional the sound waves become. Typically above about 120Hz, most listeners can start to locate the source of the sound pressure. By the time you get into human voice range (> 1k Hz), human ear can very easily directionally pin-point the sound source. So... you DO NOT want to stuff your mid-range drivers under your seat. That will screw up your stereo image. In fact, if you want the optimum front soundstage, the front midranges need to be phase-coupled to the tweeters they are cross-overed with. That usually means - at the very least - they need to be in close proximity to each other. Driver placement gets far more nuanced than that, but suffice it to say... stuffing mid-range drivers under your seats are about as dumb as it gets.

3. Most mid-range drivers, even if they are as large as some smaller subs, are generally not designed to generate the lower sub-range frequencies. The low end roll-off are either early/sharp, or gets rather choppy and not smooth. You need to qualify they properly, before you press them into doing subwoofer duty.

I'm hoping the OP just used the wrong term, and not actually doing what I think he's doing.

I wasn't looking for more bass but more vocals and the mid range speakers filled that space with my sub box

 

[Landshark]

I wasn't looking for more bass but more vocals and the mid range speakers filled that space with my sub box

for more vocals, you need to boost/cut the right frequencies. i use the Poweramp music app to play stored music on my phone using Android Auto, and it has a 16 (20?) band EQ that i can adjust to make the HK system sound really good. if you're a "streamer", your app may or may not have an EQ you can adjust.

as was said before, the factory subs are crossed over at a very low frequency ( ~43Hz) - anything above that gets attenuated and is essentially filtered out. if you boost the lower bass frequencies (30-80HZ), they will start to come into the mix.

FWIW, the HK system is very trebly to my ears. i tend to cut the treble and midrange a lot in the car's tone control, then add stuff back in Poweramp's EQ.

its really just trial and error until your ears are happy.

 

[squiers007]

for more vocals, you need to boost/cut the right frequencies. i use the Poweramp music app to play stored music on my phone using Android Auto, and it has a 16 (20?) band EQ that i can adjust to make the HK system sound really good. if you're a "streamer", your app may or may not have an EQ you can adjust.

as was said before, the factory subs are crossed over at a very low frequency ( ~43Hz) - anything above that gets attenuated and is essentially filtered out. if you boost the lower bass frequencies (30-80HZ), they will start to come into the mix.

FWIW, the HK system is very trebly to my ears. i tend to cut the treble and midrange a lot in the car's tone control, then add stuff back in Poweramp's EQ.

its really just trial and error until your ears are happy.

View attachment 90031

While I agree with most of what you are saying, if you use the picture you posted as a guide without first understanding (measuring) what your frequency response looks like, most people will not be able to achieve good results unless they have a very good ear. There are some cheap phone apps available that use the built in mics in your phone to measure your frequency response. While not the best or most accurate method it will give you a general idea of what you are hearing and my help you identify trouble areas. A better option if you want to get more serious about it, is to pickup a calibrated USB mic, learn how to use the free software REW, and take some moving mic average measurements.

 

[Landshark]

While I agree with most of what you are saying, if you use the picture you posted as a guide without first understanding (measuring) what your frequency response looks like, most people will not be able to achieve good results unless they have a very good ear. There are some cheap phone apps available that use the built in mics in your phone to measure your frequency response. While not the best or most accurate method it will give you a general idea of what you are hearing and my help you identify trouble areas. A better option if you want to get more serious about it, is to pickup a calibrated USB mic, learn how to use the free software REW, and take some moving mic average measurements.

i use my ears to make audio adjustments - been tweaking tone on guitar amps for 30+ years. i would never do it by sight, or what i think it "should be".

the above picture is just a guide to get the OP in the ballpark - everyone's ears and tastes are different. even the music you listen to may influence how you set your EQ. I, for example, listen to mainly thrash/heavy metal and like my bass tight and accurate. someone who listens to hip hop may like it looser and boomier.

i've heard people's audio setups that sounded awful to me, but they thought it sounded great. that's all that matters, because its their setup.

 

[SiriusPilot]

for more vocals, you need to boost/cut the right frequencies. i use the Poweramp music app to play stored music on my phone using Android Auto, and it has a 16 (20?) band EQ that i can adjust to make the HK system sound really good. if you're a "streamer", your app may or may not have an EQ you can adjust.

as was said before, the factory subs are crossed over at a very low frequency ( ~43Hz) - anything above that gets attenuated and is essentially filtered out. if you boost the lower bass frequencies (30-80HZ), they will start to come into the mix.

FWIW, the HK system is very trebly to my ears. i tend to cut the treble and midrange a lot in the car's tone control, then add stuff back in Poweramp's EQ.

its really just trial and error until your ears are happy.

View attachment 90031

I use poweramp equalizer with aawireless 2 to stream with android auto, so poweramp works pretty darn good

 

[socalvn]

There is so much wrong with the premise of the thread...

The sound that subwoofers play are very low frequency (typically considered <80Hz). At those low freq's, the wave lengths are so long, the subwoofer cones are not really emitting sound waves, so much as they compress (and decompress) the air volume inside the cabin. There are two implications to this:

1. If you want the most out of your auto-sound subs, you should always close ALL your windows and sunroofs. The enclosed air volume inside the car cabin allows the subwoofers to compress the air much more effectively. This is known as acoustic room gain. Done well, this can achieve as much as 6-9db gain in your sub-bass frequencies.

2. The very low frequencies are effectively non-directional, which is why you can pretty much put the sub drivers anywhere. Again, they only generate sound PRESSURE, not really emit sound waves that propagate linearly and directionally. The flip side of this is that the higher the frequency, the more directional the sound waves become. Typically above about 120Hz, most listeners can start to locate the source of the sound pressure. By the time you get into human voice range (> 1k Hz), human ear can very easily directionally pin-point the sound source. So... you DO NOT want to stuff your mid-range drivers under your seat. That will screw up your stereo image. In fact, if you want the optimum front soundstage, the front midranges need to be phase-coupled to the tweeters they are cross-overed with. That usually means - at the very least - they need to be in close proximity to each other. Driver placement gets far more nuanced than that, but suffice it to say... stuffing mid-range drivers under your seats are about as dumb as it gets.

3. Most mid-range drivers, even if they are as large as some smaller subs, are generally not designed to generate the lower sub-range frequencies. The low end roll-off are either early/sharp, or gets rather choppy and not smooth. You need to qualify they properly, before you press them into doing subwoofer duty.

I'm hoping the OP just used the wrong term, and not actually doing what I think he's doing.

Good read good Information