3.3TT Lets talk about turbo failures

[luter200]

Okay so I just got off the phone with Kia after blowing my driver side turbo. They have to replace the motor and everything. Even though this doesn't effect me financially since it is covered I really feel bad for Kia picking up the tab on this.

Anyway there have now been 3 instances (one including myself) of people blowing their driver side turbo specifically. Let's not talk about tuning chips, or anything in this thread (only common bolt ons). They might have pushed some of those instances over the edge of turbo failure, but this seems like too much of a coincidence to not look further into.

Had a few experienced tuners look at the logs and it appears as though there is a large spike of boost after the throttle is released for some reason. This kind of points me in the direction of aftermarket BOVs. I'm running the HKS SVQs, which will be swapped back out for stock after I get my car back, but I do remember seeing a post on this forum of the same driver side turbo failure with these BOVs. 3.3TT - Misfires / Turbo Failure

Or my other theory here is that the driver side cat is known to be smaller than the passenger side. Could it maybe be increased back pressure from the driver side that increases turbo failure risk? It seems as though this may have been a design flaw maybe. As the platform is modded this type of flaw is probably reaching it's threshold.

 

[MerlintheMad]

The driver side front "brake" vent/hole (behind the wheel) is larger than the passenger side. That must be it.

Seriously, how can THREE driver (or any) turbo failures point anyone to anything? That sounds like an expected rate of individual failure to me.

If any of "you" have bolt on mods, I'm surprised that Kia would replace anything, frankly.

 

[Spaceme17]

Yes, I agree. Turbos are mass produced parts and there will be a percentage of failures on any car.

From everything I have read, the KIA 3.3 TT engine is rock solid.

The driver side front "brake" vent/hole (behind the wheel) is larger than the passenger side. That must be it.

Seriously, how can THREE driver (or any) turbo failures point anyone to anything? That sounds like an expected rate of individual failure to me.

If any of "you" have bolt on mods, I'm surprised that Kia would replace anything, frankly.

 

[runner1]

Divide the number of stingers by 3 and you have the percentage of failures based on your findings. Every time you hear of another case reapply....call me when you get to 1% and then this is a reasonable assertion. You’re reaching miles on this

 

[eflyguy]

Yeah, no.
Have fun with this.

 

[sym]

Okay so I just got off the phone with Kia after blowing my driver side turbo. They have to replace the motor and everything. Even though this doesn't effect me financially since it is covered I really feel bad for Kia picking up the tab on this.

Anyway there have now been 3 instances (one including myself) of people blowing their driver side turbo specifically. Let's not talk about tuning chips, or anything in this thread (only common bolt ons). They might have pushed some of those instances over the edge of turbo failure, but this seems like too much of a coincidence to not look further into.

Had a few experienced tuners look at the logs and it appears as though there is a large spike of boost after the throttle is released for some reason. This kind of points me in the direction of aftermarket BOVs. I'm running the HKS SVQs, which will be swapped back out for stock after I get my car back, but I do remember seeing a post on this forum of the same driver side turbo failure with these BOVs. 3.3TT - Misfires / Turbo Failure

Or my other theory here is that the driver side cat is known to be smaller than the passenger side. Could it maybe be increased back pressure from the driver side that increases turbo failure risk? It seems as though this may have been a design flaw maybe. As the platform is modded this type of flaw is probably reaching it's threshold.

Biggest difference between driver and passenger side are that the PCV/CCV systems send engine oil into the driver's side turbo inlet.

 

[luter200]

I wasn't saying this is a super common occurrence people so no need to dismiss any of these arguments. I'm simply saying that out of 3 known cases including myself its always been the driver side turbo failure. I'm curious to know why that side specifically seems to be the common denominator. I know that 3 stingers are nothing statistically to all of the stingers owned, but that wasn't the point of this post. It was to discuss the possibility of a weak point, or factory defect that could get worse as the platform is pushed further. No need to say I'm reaching miles for asking a simple question lol.

 

[luter200]

Also Kia has the best warranty in the biz. I'm the one who went through the process. I left secondary downpipes, catback exhaust, BOVs, and intakes on the car when I brought it in to the shop. Kia has already ordered the motor, and turbo 100% covered so there is that. People don't seem to understand that you can't just "void" your warranty. The only thing kia can do legally is deny a warranty claim. And if they do deny it they have to provide direct evidence that a modified part caused the failure in which case none of the mods I listed qualifies them to deny it.

 

[MerlintheMad]

The only thing kia can do legally is deny a warranty claim. And if they do deny it they have to provide direct evidence that a modified part caused the failure in which case none of the mods I listed qualifies them to deny it.

It's stickier than that. Kia can claim cause from a modification. And if the customer doesn't push further the matter is finished. Kia "wins". I shared a story recently about such a case. It does happen. But such cases are decidedly in the minority. A good Kia shop will stand by you. Even with all the stuff on the car that you have. I think that the difference is mainly some shops are not run by real car guys. But the ones that are know that mods typically do not cause failures; whereas drivers do.

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

The biggest thing that I'm taking away from this post is that Kia is willing to help you even with new exhaust parts and intakes that they could easily try and spin into being "failure caused by owner modifications". I don't mean this sarcastically, I'm actually thrilled Kia is covering it, especially considering they have to replace the entire engine as well.

Regardless of what Internet Lawyers Esq. will tell you, Kia can absolutely deny your warranty claim without any concrete evidence that your mods are at fault, Manguson-Moss Warranty Act be damned (and anyway it doesn't cover anything that isn't designed to be an OEM replacement). It happens all the time. It's happened to people on this very forum - I think it was Merlin who told about a Stinger owner he met who had a claim denied for a blown engine because he ran aftermarket intakes. Mitsubishi was WELL known for this sort of behavior back when the Evos were hot. The only thing you can do at that point is find a lawyer that specializes in consumer protection and take them to court or go through arbitration while you're out of a car for months.

I'm all for people modding their cars, but at the same time "THEY HAVE TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT YOUR MODS BROKE THE CAR TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!!!" is patently false.

 

[luter200]

The biggest thing that I'm taking away from this post is that Kia is willing to help you even with new exhaust parts and intakes that they could easily try and spin into being "failure caused by owner modifications". I don't mean this sarcastically, I'm actually thrilled Kia is covering it, especially considering they have to replace the entire engine as well.

Regardless of what Internet Lawyers Esq. will tell you, Kia can absolutely deny your warranty claim without any concrete evidence that your mods are at fault, Manguson-Moss Warranty Act be damned (and anyway it doesn't cover anything that isn't designed to be an OEM replacement). It happens all the time. It's happened to people on this very forum - I think it was Merlin who told about a Stinger owner he met who had a claim denied for a blown engine because he ran aftermarket intakes. Mitsubishi was WELL known for this sort of behavior back when the Evos were hot. The only thing you can do at that point is find a lawyer that specializes in consumer protection and take them to court or go through arbitration while you're out of a car for months.

I'm all for people modding their cars, but at the same time "THEY HAVE TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT YOUR MODS BROKE THE CAR TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!!!" is patently false.

A good friend of mine which works at a Kia dealership as a tech explained the whole process. Kia could deny a claim due to modifications like the ones I have, but they have to have direct evidence. If they can provide direct evidence then the ball gets put in the customer's court. They would require the customer to provide direct evidence that it wasn't the cause. Theoretically you could get lawyers involved as well which any car company has deep pockets, but chances are if the evidence isn't 100% strong they could loose that battle. Hense why Kia probably just replaces it.

Also Kia may also be trying to retain a good customer base. Especially since the Stinger is one of the highest class models. Even with replacing the motor, turbocharger, and labor they still probably made a profit off the car. I'm not saying a huge profit, but they at least came out even. A new Lamba II motor costs almost 7k, but in reality they know it costs them maybe 2.5k to physically make the motor in their factory.

 

[GuyManDude]

A good friend of mine which works at a Kia dealership as a tech explained the whole process. Kia could deny a claim due to modifications like the ones I have, but they have to have direct evidence. If they can provide direct evidence then the ball gets put in the customer's court. They would require the customer to provide direct evidence that it wasn't the cause. Theoretically you could get lawyers involved as well which any car company has deep pockets, but chances are if the evidence isn't 100% strong they could loose that battle. Hense why Kia probably just replaces it.

Also Kia may also be trying to retain a good customer base. Especially since the Stinger is one of the highest class models. Even with replacing the motor, turbocharger, and labor they still probably made a profit off the car. I'm not saying a huge profit, but they at least came out even. A new Lamba II motor costs almost 7k, but in reality they know it costs them maybe 2.5k to physically make the motor in their factory.

My driver side blew out this week. BOV's are set to atmospheric release and have always discharged quickly when I come off throttle. My log showed even boost, timing, and failed at shift from 3rd to 4th around 5,100rpm. White smoke started pouring out of the hood on the driver side followed by an enormous cloud out of the exhaust. Logs looked good up to that point, as I got second opinions as well. There is another thread from 2018 regarding a similar incident that is also driver side. The OP said the service department told him of 6-7 failures and all were driverside. @luter200 I concur. I was running boost, but not ridiculous boost.

 

[NS_Stinger]

My driver side blew out this week. BOV's are set to atmospheric release and have always discharged quickly when I come off throttle. My log showed even boost, timing, and failed at shift from 3rd to 4th around 5,100rpm. White smoke started pouring out of the hood on the driver side followed by an enormous cloud out of the exhaust. Logs looked good up to that point, as I got second opinions as well. There is another thread from 2018 regarding a similar incident that is also driver side. The OP said the service department told him of 6-7 failures and all were driverside. @luter200 I concur. I was running boost, but not ridiculous boost.

What mods do you have? Are you running a piggyback or ecu tune?

 

[DoctorStiches]

This is a talky talky thread i see.
Im no professional >dusts off clipboard
The difference if cat size 'should' be corrected if you want that symmetrical bi turbo pureness yes but most likely looked into by engineers who were most likely mad they had to do it hehe

Ive got a completly unbased comment as well
Heard alot while growing up of driver side turbos being the one to fail on biturbo cars. That is driver side and rear mounted for inline engines. Just data scrapped together from the past to be honest. Something about heat and the position and the extra parts on the driver side. Blah blah blah stinger turbos are mounted low and that manifold being the way it is may be great for even airflow into the turbine but maybe the heat sink is
easyily moving from head to turbo now... ??? Ill stop now

 

[Stinger90735]

A good friend of mine which works at a Kia dealership as a tech explained the whole process. Kia could deny a claim due to modifications like the ones I have, but they have to have direct evidence. If they can provide direct evidence then the ball gets put in the customer's court. They would require the customer to provide direct evidence that it wasn't the cause. Theoretically you could get lawyers involved as well which any car company has deep pockets, but chances are if the evidence isn't 100% strong they could loose that battle. Hense why Kia probably just replaces it.

Also Kia may also be trying to retain a good customer base. Especially since the Stinger is one of the highest class models. Even with replacing the motor, turbocharger, and labor they still probably made a profit off the car. I'm not saying a huge profit, but they at least came out even. A new Lamba II motor costs almost 7k, but in reality they know it costs them maybe 2.5k to physically make the motor in their factory.

Was there any signs that the Turbo was on it's way out the door before it blew?
I've noticed my car feels slower and sometimes when accelerating I hear a strange buzzing from the drivers side and was wondering if my Turbo was on it's way out the door...which would be good timing since my warranty is done in about 1400 kms

 

[65RivieraGS]

There’s no sense hating on people who put bolt ons to change a feature of their car. I think that it’s wonderful that Kia backed up the warranty without a fight.

 

[G-69215]

My driver side turbo has been getting louder and louder. Took it in and looks like they will be replacing it. 8k miles, bone stock 2020 GT AWD.

 

[peterpan223]

My driver side turbo has been getting louder and louder. Took it in and looks like they will be replacing it. 8k miles, bone stock 2020 GT AWD.

What kind of noise were you hearing?

I'm hearing turbo whine noise when I get on about 50% to 60% throttle. It sounds like a superchargern but at much lower volume. It seems like it's coming only on the driver's side. When I drive around town normally, turbo not under load, I don't hear it.
This started about 3 weeks ago.

I'm wondering if my driver's side turbo is failing.

I have secondary cat removed with downpipe and catback exhaust.
No CIA. Primary cats are still on.

 

[FlooF!]

How did you determine the turbo was failing and/or did fail?

 

[cncBilly]

What kind of noise were you hearing?

I'm hearing turbo whine noise when I get on about 50% to 60% throttle. It sounds like a superchargern but at much lower volume. It seems like it's coming only on the driver's side. When I drive around town normally, turbo not under load, I don't hear it.
This started about 3 weeks ago.

I'm wondering if my driver's side turbo is failing.

I have secondary cat removed with downpipe and catback exhaust.
No CIA. Primary cats are still on.

Keep us up dated on this if you can. I don’t have the problem (yet) but will follow with interest