It has been a tough week in the Stinger. I need encouragement from the faithful. Haha.

[Helo58]

We have arrived with the one true problem of owning this car and that is dealing with Kia service departments. Most of your issues would have been easily addressed or not issues at all (brake pulsing) if the service department knew what they were doing. My suggestion is perhaps find a dealer in the area who is a little more familiar with the car so they dont keep playing legos with it. I am lucky in the sense my dealer has some pride in the stinger and when I bring it in for something, they already know if it's a common issue or threre is a TSB for it. If they dont they take the time to research it before ripping my car apart. Just my $0.02. Good luck!

I had my concerns regarding the quality of service I would receive coming from the Lexus dealership for my last car. This concern was realized when I brought the car in for the first recall (wiring harness plug under hood). It was a scheduled appointment made in advance. When I arrived, I was told I would have to reschedule because they did not have the plug to do the recall with. It is a 25-30 minute drive each way.

After that, the car began to let me down with the brakes, hatch rattle, LSD, stereo fader, paint strips, etc...., not the dealership. With the bolt falling out, now I am not really concerned with the how and why. When my car tries to hurt me, it may be time to cut my losses and move on. I was told because of this issue, they would need my car for up to 3 weeks so the KIA quality guy (travels around for special cases) could look at it. If that is the case, that would make almost 2 months that I have been without my car since purchasing it in May of 2018.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I had my concerns regarding the quality of service I would receive coming from the Lexus dealership for my last car. This concern was realized when I brought the car in for the first recall (wiring harness plug under hood). It was a scheduled appointment made in advance. When I arrived, I was told I would have to reschedule because they did not have the plug to do the recall with. It is a 25-30 minute drive each way.

After that, the car began to let me down with the brakes, hatch rattle, LSD (Limited Slip Differential), stereo fader, paint strips, etc...., not the dealership. With the bolt falling out, now I am not really concerned with the how and why. When my car tries to hurt me, it may be time to cut my losses and move on. I was told because of this issue, they would need my car for up to 3 weeks so the KIA quality guy (travels around for special cases) could look at it. If that is the case, that would make almost 2 months that I have been without my car since purchasing it in May of 2018.

I concur with your thoughts. Since Kia has not offered the attention to my concerns that I had expected for their flagship vehicle, I won't be keeping mine either, nor will I be buying another HKG product until their dealer service network (and the corporate level to which they respond) up their game. There seems to be a few good dealers out there willing to take real initiative, but that doesn't appear to be the majority.

 

[Helo58]

I concur with your thoughts. Since Kia has not offered the attention to my concerns that I had expected for their flagship vehicle, I won't be keeping mine either, nor will I be buying another HKG product until their dealer service network (and the corporate level to which they respond) up their game. There seems to be a few good dealers out there willing to take real initiative, but that doesn't appear to be the majority.

I will concede that Kia has made great strides in their vehicles and "image" since the 1990s and that fundamental change doesn't take place overnight. I think that they are working in that direction and making progress but there is something missing at the foundational level. Telluride, K900, and Stinger owners are a different group than Soul, Niro, Rio, Forte, and Sportage owners. I think one group is focused on value and the other is comprised of passionate and enthusiastic car people who view their cars as more than transportation. It is hard to have a service department than can deal with both under one roof.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I agree with being snakebit and I want to tread lightly in this case, so I am taking the time to see if removal of that bolt is part of the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) swap. If so, it is more likely that it was incompetence. At the risk of sounding dramatic, this level of incompetence (if it was) could get someone hurt. It is far more serious than the wrong viscosity of oil or putting a Stinger badge on crooked. Either way, whether it was from the factory or part of the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) swap, it should not have happened. Here is another angle...

View attachment 37045

Just to clarify for myself: is that the end of the sway bar and the end link? (not a car guy, I remind all you all) It seems that when that upper arm detaches, the sway bar is the only thing working to keep the left side from collapsing; well, the coil spring, too, of course, but the sway bar has to be a big part of stopping that detached suspension arm from smacking into the inside of the wheel constantly. Please elucidate and correct any misconceptions I have about what I am looking at. Thanks.

@Helo58 I've read back over this thread and I can hardly believe that all of this has happened to one guy and his car. Incredibly frustrating. I hope that you get to the bottom of this one. Please let us know what you find out. And may this be the END of this in the shop crap. Amen!

 

[MerlintheMad]

I concur with your thoughts. Since Kia has not offered the attention to my concerns that I had expected for their flagship vehicle, I won't be keeping mine either, nor will I be buying another HKG product until their dealer service network (and the corporate level to which they respond) up their game. There seems to be a few good dealers out there willing to take real initiative, but that doesn't appear to be the majority.

I will concede that Kia has made great strides in their vehicles and "image" since the 1990s and that fundamental change doesn't take place overnight. I think that they are working in that direction and making progress but there is something missing at the foundational level. Telluride, K900, and Stinger owners are a different group than Soul, Niro, Rio, Forte, and Sportage owners. I think one group is focused on value and the other is comprised of passionate and enthusiastic car people who view their cars as more than transportation. It is hard to have a service department than can deal with both under one roof.

I keep remembering the 1,000 point scale of owner satisfaction that Consumer Reports puts out; I saw the one last year; and Kia scored c. 660-something, iirc. That means that roughly two out of three Kia owners are satisfied with the customer service experience.

Now, that does not mean that two out of three Kia service departments are satisfying (as I have asserted before; I've rethought this). What it does mean is that a complex of vehicle quality and customer service satisfies two out of three Kia owners. If you take Kia vehicles and that five year, 60K miles bumper to bumper warranty (100K miles drivetrain warranty), that means that the great majority of Kia vehicles are not going into the shop for anything more than routine maintenance anyway. Vehicle reliability keeps most Kia vehicles out of the hands of shop hacks.

A sizeable percentage (I want to say at least half) of Kia service departments are competent enough to deal with MOST of the stuff that comes into their hands: so, satisfied customers result. But, individual vehicles with issues, combined with too many Kia service departments that are staffed by hacks, incompetents and fools, result in one out of three Kia owners who give a thumbs down to Kia's customer service experience.

As I recall, only a handful of top brand names scored in the 700s and 800s on that CR survey of customer service satisfaction. I don't think any brand scored in the 900s? I'd like to take a look at it again, but I don't know where to access it: CR demands subscription to view it on their site: the copy I saw must have been purloined.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I keep remembering the 1,000 point scale of owner satisfaction that Consumer Reports puts out; I saw the one last year; and Kia scored c. 660-something, iirc. That means that roughly two out of three Kia owners are satisfied with the customer service experience.

Now, that does not mean that two out of three Kia service departments are satisfying (as I have asserted before; I've rethought this). What it does mean is that a complex of vehicle quality and customer service satisfies two out of three Kia owners. If you take Kia vehicles and that five year, 60K miles bumper to bumper warranty (100K miles drivetrain warranty), that means that the great majority of Kia vehicles are not going into the shop for anything more than routine maintenance anyway. Vehicle reliability keeps most Kia vehicles out of the hands of shop hacks.

A sizeable percentage (I want to say at least half) of Kia service departments are competent enough to deal with MOST of the stuff that comes into their hands: so, satisfied customers result. But, individual vehicles with issues, combined with too many Kia service departments that are staffed by hacks, incompetents and fools, result in one out of three Kia owners who give a thumbs down to Kia's customer service experience.

As I recall, only a handful of top brand names scored in the 700s and 800s on that CR survey of customer service satisfaction. I don't think any brand scored in the 900s? I'd like to take a look at it again, but I don't know where to access it: CR demands subscription to view it on their site: the copy I saw must have been purloined.

I think one other factor that comes into dealer experience is those dealerships owned by conglomerates. I really find this to be a double edged sword, but that's my perception, not based on verifiable facts. I've noticed that these dealers under the conglomerate are usually stating they want "total satisfaction," and they sometimes offer perks like points cards, higher probability of loaner cars when in service. I get the perception that the customer service may be genuine, but I question if it is undermined by the conglomerate pushing for higher profitability. I know in some cases, Kia corporate is the one not authorizing repairs, but I've questioned if it might be at the conglomerate corporate level where the nickel and diming comes into play, refusing to do certain non (or less) profitable jobs like warranty work. Maybe there is just far too much red tape, rather than the dealer answering to the manufacturer, they also need to answer to their conglomerate bosses, just making a mess of the process.

 

[GenesisG70]

Lexus? you mean the brand that is owned by senior citizens and middle age women? That alone makes me run away from any Lexus.. When you can buy a Stinger GT2 NEW at a discounted price close to 45,000 or 44,000 USD it is a fantastic car that you cannot get at that price from any brand.

 

[Helo58]

Lexus? you mean the brand that is owned by senior citizens and middle age women? That alone makes me run away from any Lexus.. When you can buy a Stinger GT2 NEW at a discounted price close to 45,000 or 44,000 USD it is a fantastic car that you cannot get at that price from any brand.

Clearly our experiences with both Lexus and Kia have been very different. If you have never driven a true Lexus "F" car, then I can understand why you might feel that way. I'll stop there before I sound all fanboyish on my old ISF.

No disagreement from me on the value offered by the Stinger GT. That very value is why I am here as a Stinger GT owner. Unfortunately, my Stinger has let me down on a number of fronts. My low 12-sec senior citizen/middle aged woman car never did, it was just past its prime and I wanted something new. The Stinger offered the price, technology, and performance that checked all of the boxes so I made the jump.

 

[oddball]

Just to clarify for myself: is that the end of the sway bar and the end link? (not a car guy, I remind all you all) It seems that when that upper arm detaches, the sway bar is the only thing working to keep the left side from collapsing; well, the coil spring, too, of course, but the sway bar has to be a big part of stopping that detached suspension arm from smacking into the inside of the wheel constantly. Please elucidate and correct any misconceptions I have about what I am looking at. Thanks.

The sway bar connects directly to the upright. The upper arm that disconnected provides the primary camber control for the wheel. Once that's off, camber can wobble, which will wildly affect toe, leading to the very dangerous situation Helo hit. The front and rear arms kept the upright more-or-less in the right place, which is what let Helo keep driving. Most cars only have two (or one!) control arm, so if one disconnects, the wheel just folds over immediately and the car isn't going anywhere.
Regardless of how the sway bar attaches, it doesn't have enough strength to actually control wheel movement. It only provides a counter-effect to body roll.

The weight of the car is actually supported by the lower control arm via the spring.

Helo, yeah, this is absolutely horrible. Totally understand your viewpoint, too. I got the run-around on the roof strips. Finally got them replaced, but required calling the manager, still waiting several weeks, then sitting around at the dealer for an hour. I didn't pay attention earlier - you got the LSD swapped at the dealer? Asking a Kia tech to do something like that is.... well, we are where we are. Kind of like when my sister had Firestone do an engine rebuild. Not good.

 

[Helo58]

The sway bar connects directly to the upright. The upper arm that disconnected provides the primary camber control for the wheel. Once that's off, camber can wobble, which will wildly affect toe, leading to the very dangerous situation Helo hit. The front and rear arms kept the upright more-or-less in the right place, which is what let Helo keep driving. Most cars only have two (or one!) control arm, so if one disconnects, the wheel just folds over immediately and the car isn't going anywhere.
Regardless of how the sway bar attaches, it doesn't have enough strength to actually control wheel movement. It only provides a counter-effect to body roll.

The weight of the car is actually supported by the lower control arm via the spring.

Helo, yeah, this is absolutely horrible. Totally understand your viewpoint, too. I got the run-around on the roof strips. Finally got them replaced, but required calling the manager, still waiting several weeks, then sitting around at the dealer for an hour. I didn't pay attention earlier - you got the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) swapped at the dealer? Asking a Kia tech to do something like that is.... well, we are where we are. Kind of like when my sister had Firestone do an engine rebuild. Not good.

@oddball , what a great explanation of how the rear suspension works. I appreciate the level of detail that you went into. It perfectly explains what I was feeling from behind the wheel. I am sure that the toe wasn't out as large as it felt, but it felt similar to how relatively small steering inputs feel when driving in reverse at higher speeds (i.e. J-turn).

Do you think that there is any chance that the remaining connected arms were bent or twisted in any fashion, or wheel bearing damage by me driving on it after the upper arm came loose? My guess is that the dealer is going to put a new bolt back in, reattach the upper arm and not look any further. I know it sounds cynical, but I am interested in no future problems related to this happening.

Yes, the LSD was swapped at the dealer. I certainly wasn't going to pay for such a job (LSD plus labor), so that left me few choices. The Firestone engine rebuild actually made me laugh out loud. Ironically, the new LSD is making the same noises as the previous one initially did. The repetitive problems are what has me worries about keeping THIS Stinger. I may entertain another Stinger, but there is no faith in this one long term. I am consulting with a Lemon Law attorney currently and will see what my options are going forward. I really like the Stinger, just not my Stinger.

 

[itguy61]

I don't think it will ever be a valid comparison to compare the customer service of Kia to a luxury brand. I have owned Audi's and a BMW and there just is not a comparison to their service and a mainstream brand. That being said, this situation and Kia's overall customer service mindset is unacceptable.

I have owned Toyota and Honda products before and even though they make everything from cheap Yaris and Fit vehicles to expensive Landcruiser and high end Pilots their service departments and customer service mindset were way better than Kia's . I never had experiences like this at Toyota and Honda dealerships, at least in the DFW, Texas area. I don't think Toyota or Honda would have not responded to the Brake issue and blamed customers and charged them for a design flaw. We have see this brake issue pop up in the press in almost every extended test and they have done nothing but deny.

I have seen posts from owners having to wait 2-3 months for a damn fender due to an accident. There are at least 30,000 of these cars on the road in North America and their inability or choice to not stock common parts in their warehouses over here is inexcusable.

I love this car, and it is my third Kia, but it may be my last as well if they don't up their service game. Telluride owners are going to expect good service as well given the cost of the vehicle.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I have seen posts from owners having to wait 2-3 months for a damn fender due to an accident. There are at least 30,000 of these cars on the road in North America and their inability or choice to not stock common parts in their warehouses over here is inexcusable.

This is likely going to be my story...

But further to that thought, I've worked in manufacturing for a good number of years and have had training and education in it. There is NO WAY their manufacturing process is so nailed down (JIT - Just in time manufacturing) that they have zero spares of parts, or that they cannot pull from the stock allocations to send out for these repair purposes. Actually, it would be foolish to set up such a manufacturing plan of these parts without any foresight into stock required for usage such as damage, customer requirements like accidents, etc. Maybe cars don't run into each other in Korea, that's a North American phenomenon.

The only thing I think is that they likely just don't carry any stock in North America, they just order what they need, it is scheduled on the next ocean freight shipment, probably waiting for full container loads, sitting on the docks for 2-4 weeks and then finally arriving to the dealer after coming off the ship, customs, etc, about 8 weeks after the order....

 

[itguy61]

This is likely going to be my story...

But further to that thought, I've worked in manufacturing for a good number of years and have had training and education in it. There is NO WAY their manufacturing process is so nailed down (JIT - Just in time manufacturing) that they have zero spares of parts, or that they cannot pull from the stock allocations to send out for these repair purposes. Actually, it would be foolish to set up such a manufacturing plan of these parts without any foresight into stock required for usage such as damage, customer requirements like accidents, etc. Maybe cars don't run into each other in Korea, that's a North American phenomenon.

The only thing I think is that they likely just don't carry any stock in North America, they just order what they need, it is scheduled on the next ocean freight shipment, probably waiting for full container loads, sitting on the docks for 2-4 weeks and then finally arriving to the dealer after coming off the ship, customs, etc, about 8 weeks after the order....

That is totally unacceptable on their part. You also have to realize that these companies make bigger margins on parts than they do on selling the darn car as a whole. There is incentive to have parts available for sale.

 

[NismoDPB]

@oddball
Do you think that there is any chance that the remaining connected arms were bent or twisted in any fashion, or wheel bearing damage by me driving on it after the upper arm came loose? My guess is that the dealer is going to put a new bolt back in, reattach the upper arm and not look any further. I know it sounds cynical, but I am interested in no future problems related to this happening.

It's hard to say. I honestly wouldn't be too worried about the sway bar or controls arms being compromised. The most that may have happened was the end link getting a little beat up by slapping the inside of the wheel but I would guess the wheel took the majority of damage in that case.

I honestly would be most concerned with the bushings. Not sure how long you drove around like that but that strange loading may have compromised some of the joint components. That could just be my own paranoia.

For the LSD btw, there is a recall on the diff oil that came from the factory. Apparently that diff noise goes away with that fix.

 

[Revvdmedia]

That is totally unacceptable on their part. You also have to realize that these companies make bigger margins on parts than they do on selling the darn car as a whole. There is incentive to have parts available for sale.

Preaching to the choir there. I paid about 200 bucks for the plastic trim on the interior rear window of mine when it broke when I took it off. It literally looks like a part worth about 4 bucks max.

 

[oddball]

Do you think that there is any chance that the remaining connected arms were bent or twisted in any fashion, or wheel bearing damage by me driving on it after the upper arm came loose? My guess is that the dealer is going to put a new bolt back in, reattach the upper arm and not look any further. I know it sounds cynical, but I am interested in no future problems related to this happening.

Ah, I didn't catch that the LSD was a warranty replacement. Yeah, you've got a bad string going. That sucks. I think you're probably in the right place - offload this one and keep an eye out for another one.

The only part I would worry about is the outer CV joint. Any deformation in the arms would be super obvious, but I think they're all stout enough to have survived just fine. But the CV joint would've been going through way more than was intended. They're super good right until you hit an angle where they're not. Not much you can do with Kia other than listen for joint failure. CV failure has a specific sound and/or it just locks up solid.

There's a really good chance it's fine though. There's so many arms back there that it wouldn't have had all that much freedom of movement and doesn't sound like you went kamikaze driving with it like this a whole bunch anyway.

I think the bushings would be fine. A visual inspection on all the bushings attached to the upright, looking for tears, gaps or chunks missing, would be all I'd do. Similarly, there was enough freedom of movement for it to wiggle out from under you, but I doubt there was enough to damage anything.

The wheel bearing probably got some interesting loads, but compared to what guys do to their lowered Hondas and drive for years? Nah. I bet it's fine.

So, in one sense, super lucky they over-engineered the rear suspension. Any similar cost car having a major suspension bolt fall out? That sucker is losing control and hitting the ground immediately. Silver lining!

 

[Helo58]

Is it just me, or is the forum "auto-correcting" LSD to include the phrase limited slip differential without me typing it? I don't remember typing it.

 

[Helo58]

Yes, it is. LSD LSD LSD. Too funny! Try it for yourself... Haha.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Yes, it is. LSD (Limited Slip Differential) LSD (Limited Slip Differential) LSD (Limited Slip Differential). Too funny! Try it for yourself... Haha.

And when you quote LSD, it doubles it; see above a few posts for examples. It has been a tough week in the Stinger. I need encouragement from the faithful. Haha. Another parenthetical is ISG. There are a few more, but I forget which ones.

 

[Revvdmedia]

Yet somehow WTF does not show what the acronym stands for. (Words That Flow).