It has been a tough week in the Stinger. I need encouragement from the faithful. Haha.

[Revvdmedia]

Is @Helo58 's signature invisible to everyone but me? People keep asking what Model Year his Stinger is.

That reads fine, but in reality you pay out over $5K in lease rent by the end of the lease. "The privilege of leasing" comes with a price.

I hate selling vehicles. But I figured the money saved by avoiding lease rent would more than compensate me for going through the hassle of selling the Stinger, if it comes to that. Meanwhile, I don't have any inkling as to why I would want to sell it. So far a straight up purchase has been ideal for me.

Me being cheap is part of the reason I am in this exact situation. I was too cheap to buy a competing product due to the much higher price (no guarantee they wouldn't have their own issues) and I financed instead of leased again because of the cost of lease, I was being cheap.

Not saying that as a generalization buying a Stinger makes you cheap, but that was part of the reason I ended up with what I did.

 

[oddball]

Roof strips are extremely easy. Open hatch. Put fingernail or screwdriver under back end of strip. Pull up.
Three snap clips. Pops right off.
Just push it back on.

 

[Helo58]

Is @Helo58 's signature invisible to everyone but me? People keep asking what Model Year his Stinger is.

That reads fine, but in reality you pay out over $5K in lease rent by the end of the lease. "The privilege of leasing" comes with a price.

I hate selling vehicles. But I figured the money saved by avoiding lease rent would more than compensate me for going through the hassle of selling the Stinger, if it comes to that. Meanwhile, I don't have any inkling as to why I would want to sell it. So far a straight up purchase has been ideal for me.

Well, since this is my own thread, I guess that I can "hi-jack" it a little. You mentioned paying out over $5k in lease rent by the end of the lease. I am certainly not as informed as I could be, so I fully assume that the possibility I'm wrong is very real. I've learned that for periods of less than 3 years it is roughly a break even in most cases (assuming the dealer didn't "Matt Lauer" you) for both scenarios. Roughly meaning that what you put down vs. what you walk away with (or still have) at the end of 3 years is about the same. It goes without saying that all deals are different and there are good and bad examples of both leases and financing, but to say that the one leasing the vehicle loses $5k is as "broad a brush" as saying that the one who purchased the vehicle lost over 50% of the value of the car in the same 36 month period. Right??

 

[MerlintheMad]

It goes without saying that all deals are different and there are good and bad examples of both leases and financing, but to say that the one leasing the vehicle loses $5k is as "broad a brush" as saying that the one who purchased the vehicle lost over 50% of the value of the car in the same 36 month period. Right??

Hmm. I guess considering depreciation covers the lease rent, as long as you return the car at the end of the lease. Probably you're even ahead paying rent lease when you return the car. Buyout means you're keeping the car and "using" the depreciation: or else there seems little point in ending the lease early by doing the buyout. If you finish the lease and exercise the option to buy, depreciation doesn't matter then either. And you've paid for the privilege of leasing with the rent charge during the lease.

 

[Helo58]

Hmm. I guess considering depreciation covers the lease rent, as long as you return the car at the end of the lease. Probably you're even ahead paying rent lease when you return the car. Buyout means you're keeping the car and "using" the depreciation: or else there seems little point in ending the lease early by doing the buyout. If you finish the lease and exercise the option to buy, depreciation doesn't matter then either. And you've paid for the privilege of leasing with the rent charge during the lease.

Most comparisons that say buying is the better way to go consider the cost of keeping a leased vehicle to the 60 month or 72 month period of a typical purchase. I couldn't find one that said buying was better for a 36 month period. Considering that a Stinger will lose approximately $10,000 dollars in depreciation in the first model year (based on prices I am seeing online for 2018 GT2s) around $5k the second year, and another $5k the third year, leasing doesn't seem like a bad option for 3 years. I would assume that at the 3yr mark there would be less than $1k-$2k difference between the two, all other things being equal. I also took into consideration that the Stinger was a first model year and if it turned out to be a dud, I could turn it in at the end of 3 years. This was my logic but I am sure everyone's situation is different and therefore their choices will be different.

 

[Travis Wills]

Hmm. I guess considering depreciation covers the lease rent, as long as you return the car at the end of the lease. Probably you're even ahead paying rent lease when you return the car. Buyout means you're keeping the car and "using" the depreciation: or else there seems little point in ending the lease early by doing the buyout. If you finish the lease and exercise the option to buy, depreciation doesn't matter then either. And you've paid for the privilege of leasing with the rent charge during the lease.

Depreciation ALWAYS matters. It is ALWAYS a factor in the price of a vehicle.

 

[Travis Wills]

Most comparisons that say buying is the better way to go consider the cost of keeping a leased vehicle to the 60 month or 72 month period of a typical purchase. I couldn't find one that said buying was better for a 36 month period. Considering that a Stinger will lose approximately $10,000 dollars in depreciation in the first model year (based on prices I am seeing online for 2018 GT2s).

You should compare the selling price to the resell price and not the MSRP to the resell price.

2019 Stinger GT2s are selling brand new for less than $40k in some cases. 2018 Stinger GT2s are selling for over $40k used in a lot of cases.

Factory rebates are distorting depreciation drastically now. I am about to buy a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD and I could probably flip it for what I will pay for it to the online vendors like Vroom or Carvana.

I will take $10k in depreciation any day of the week if there are $12k worth of discounts on that car.

 

[Helo58]

You should compare the selling price to the resell price and not the MSRP to the resell price.

2019 Stinger GT2s are selling brand new for less than $40k in some cases. 2018 Stinger GT2s are selling for over $40k used in a lot of cases.

Factory rebates are distorting depreciation drastically now. I am about to buy a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD and I could probably flip it for what I will pay for it to the online vendors like Vroom or Carvana.

I will take $10k in depreciation any day of the week if there are $12k worth of discounts on that car.

At the time I purchased, no one had $12k in discounts. In fact, many dealers were still trying to sticker cars above MSRP based on perceived demand. Resultingly, many got their cars at MSRP or 3-5k below MSRP. Considering those conditions at the time, my calculations showed very little difference at the 3yr mark for the car/dealer scenario I was in.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Depreciation ALWAYS matters. It is ALWAYS a factor in the price of a vehicle.

The point I was making is that depreciation doesn't affect one way of buying more than the other. If you finish the lease, you share the cost of depreciation through having paid the lease rent: exercising the option to buy means a vehicle of less value. And if you do the buyout early you avoid the lease rent, but have to pay more for the car which has not depreciated over two or three years. So depreciation doesn't matter either way; you still have to pay for it.

If you turn the car back in at the end of a lease that is the cheapest way to enjoy having the car; but you never have the freedom of unlimited miles (the leasor's way of ensuring that you don't devalue the car unless you pay for doing so).

 

[Helo58]

Well, I found the cause of the odd feeling suspension during acceleration and it happened in a big way. The upper arm of the left rear suspension became completely detached today. I feel fortunate that nothing worse happened than did. To all who have this problem, check your suspension linkages for secure nuts/bolts.

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

Gonna go on a limb and say someone never torqued that down after the diff replacement/overhaul.

 

[Helo58]

Gonna go on a limb and say someone never torqued that down after the diff replacement/overhaul.

It would explain a lot, but I am not sure that the nut/bolt in question is removed as part of the LSD replacement. I'm seeking information now to see if this is the case.

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

From Kia GIS. For removing "Driveshaft and Axle".

 

[Helo58]

@SafetyPilotCal , thank you so much for posting this. I was just considering the 72hr GIS subscription for $19 to get this information. I may still do this to print the procedure in its entirety to show the applicable model year and drivetrain. Your post will justify the $19 dollar purchase as not being a wild-goose chase. If I may ask, how did you navigate within GIS to arrive at this page?

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

Not that I would ever condone pirating such proprietary information from the fine people at Kia, it's entirely possible that I might have somehow, hypothetically, grabbed the service manual PDF scrape when it was posted up here a few months ago. If one were to also do the same thing, it was located under Driveshaft & Axle > Rear Axle Assembly > Repair Instructions. I assume the actual GIS layout is the same.

I've attached the PDF for that section.

(but seriously, I would gladly pay up to $200 once for an actual factory service manual like the old days. I refuse to buy into the "Repair Instructions as a Service" scheme that all the manufacturers do now).

 

[Helo58]

I also saw the manual when it was posted and if memory serves, it was for the AWD not the RWD (also less importantly 2019 Vs 2018). I have no idea if the non-LSD swap is any different so I need to look further. In any event, the chances that the procedures are the same is fairly high IMO, so I will check it out. Thanks again for your post!

 

[itguy61]

@SafetyPilotCal , thank you so much for posting this. I was just considering the 72hr GIS subscription for $19 to get this information. I may still do this to print the procedure in its entirety to show the applicable model year and drivetrain. Your post will justify the $19 dollar purchase as not being a wild-goose chase. If I may ask, how did you navigate within GIS to arrive at this page?

You seem to have all the bad luck hit you! Between this and your brakes you seem to be susceptible to being snake bit!

 

[NismoDPB]

We have arrived with the one true problem of owning this car and that is dealing with Kia service departments. Most of your issues would have been easily addressed or not issues at all (brake pulsing) if the service department knew what they were doing. My suggestion is perhaps find a dealer in the area who is a little more familiar with the car so they dont keep playing legos with it. I am lucky in the sense my dealer has some pride in the stinger and when I bring it in for something, they already know if it's a common issue or threre is a TSB for it. If they dont they take the time to research it before ripping my car apart. Just my $0.02. Good luck!

 

[itguy61]

We have arrived with the one true problem of owning this car and that is dealing with Kia service departments. Most of your issues would have been easily addressed or not issues at all (brake pulsing) if the service department knew what they were doing. My suggestion is perhaps find a dealer in the area who is a little more familiar with the car so they dont keep playing legos with it. I am lucky in the sense my dealer has some pride in the stinger and when I bring it in for something, they already know if it's a common issue or threre is a TSB for it. If they dont they take the time to research it before ripping my car apart. Just my $0.02. Good luck!

Not torquing down a suspension component bolt is total incompetence. I bet it is just not because it is a stinger, they would have made the same stupid mistake on an Optima. This is my third Kia and luckily I have not experienced these issues. Kia is getting big enough and has risen in the polls as far as quality but they seriously need to up their service department and customer service soon!

 

[Helo58]

Not torquing down a suspension component bolt is total incompetence. I bet it is just not because it is a stinger, they would have made the same stupid mistake on an Optima. This is my third Kia and luckily I have not experienced these issues. Kia is getting big enough and has risen in the polls as far as quality but they seriously need to up their service department and customer service soon!

I agree with being snakebit and I want to tread lightly in this case, so I am taking the time to see if removal of that bolt is part of the LSD swap. If so, it is more likely that it was incompetence. At the risk of sounding dramatic, this level of incompetence (if it was) could get someone hurt. It is far more serious than the wrong viscosity of oil or putting a Stinger badge on crooked. Either way, whether it was from the factory or part of the LSD swap, it should not have happened. Here is another angle...