Bad I 've been screwed

Oil change intervals don't tell the whole story. How often you drive your car, and how long each of your drives are, under what weather conditions, what fuel was in your tank, etc., are just a few other factors that could conspire to cause sludge in your engine.

Just as an example, there are cases where real nice classic cars were rarely taken for a long Sunday drive. Owner did start it every so often, drive it around the block, made sure everything seemed hunky dory, then put it right back into the garage. A few year later, the car started to have running issues and the mechanics found out the engine oil was milky and the internal bearings were all pitted and worn. What the owner did never got the engine hot enough to boil off the moisture, which built up in the engine and eventually corroded the bearings and internal parts.

Another factor... running high ethanol content can exacerbate this problem. ECU will enrich mixture on very cold startups, and there will be some unburn fuel swirling around. That unburnt fuel has high ethanol content in it. So... if you shut the engine off before it got up to operating temp nice and hot, all that unburnt fuel stays around and settle on the surfaces of your engine internals. The ethanol, being hydroscopic, will attract moisture, which will start to corrode your cylinder walls, bearings, and valvetrain.

The best way to combat this is make sure you go for a nice long drive often enough to rid your engine completely of moisture... especially in the winter months. Another way is to change your oil more often than what you might think you can get away with. Oil is cheap; engine overhaul is not.

These are just a couple of example use cases. There are far more ways to F* up your car/engines.


If your engine had sludge, that is nobody's fault but yours. Whatever you did - regardless of what you might argue was done, or not done - culminated in the formation of sludge in your engine. Own up to it and learn the lesson. That is the only way you'll change your ways and not let this happen again.


I myself have changed oil in all my vehicles and the intervals rarely exceeded 5k mile... and those were typically after long vacation drives of 2-3k miles of predominately long-duration highway cruises. Sometimes, less than 3k intervals - especially for Mrs. Volfy's car - ironically because she doesn't drive her car too much. Never once had engine trouble. Never once gave the dealer any excuse to blame me on DIY maintenance, I stopped keeping receipts prolly 20yrs ago, and no dealer service ever dared to mention a peep to me about it. Because I left no door open for them to.
 
An "accredited service centre" for a simple oil change? There are tens of millions of people who change their own oil, and telling them to just trust The Experts(TM) and never do anything themselves is part of why everything is so expensive and the average person is incapable of everyday tasks.

@Coolbreeze I would recommend looking up some contacts at Kia corporate and explain what's going on to someone senior. Be calm and reasonable but don't let up...unless there's some very clear sign of abuse/neglect, I can't imagine them playing "well sure he bought the oil but maybe he never used it" lawyerball with your warranty, if you're a squeaky wheel about it.
I 100% agree with you. Oil changes are easy and I spent 20 years servicing cars from the day I drove them from the showroom. If you want to save money that's exactly what you do.

When you are relying on new car warranty...............it becomes a whole new ball game when you want to make a claim, particularly when you talking about a completely new engine.


New car warranty is "due to manufacturing defect" so Kia wants to know why this car failed.

Do they have a wider problem and engines are failing all over the place?

It's Kia Corporate (the factory) that pays the dealer for a repair. The dealer will do an analysis and send that to Kia, . If the dealer does not do this the dealer does not get paid by Kia so they are covering themselves.

If Kia rejects the claim to the dealer then the dealer rejects the claim to you.

I say "accredited service centre" because here rules have been in for a while. The Government's Competition and Consumer commission (ACCC), has a code of conduct. To claim warranty from a dealership it is not required to have the car serviced there but it must be serviced by a qualified mechanic and follow a log book service specified by the manufacturer.

Service mobs like UltraTune, Goodyear, Midas having sprung up all over the place offering log book service.

You can certainly service your own car but unless you can prove that you have done everything they do you are going to have some difficulty when you arrive with a major warranty claim.

This is the 10,000 kms service. Note Oil flush, injector cleaner, "A5" oil which is far more expensive than other 5W30 oil, "service campaigns and recalls", connect diagnostic check)

The 20,000km service changes the brake fluid plus everything on the 10,000. The 30,000km service changes the air cleaners, the 40,000 service replaces the brake fluid, diff oil, fuel filter and so on..

10,000kms
  • Add Genuine Oil System Cleaner
  • Replace Engine Oil with 5W/30 A5
  • Replace Oil Filter with Genuine Filter
  • Replace Sump Plug Washer with Genuine Washer
  • Add Genuine Fuel Additive
  • Top up Windscreen Washer fluid with Genuine Windscreen Washer Fluid
  • Inspect Engine Air Filter
  • Inspect Brake Fluid colour and level
  • Inspect Cabin Pollen Filter
  • Inspect Power Steering System
  • Inspect Tyres (Pressure & Tread)
  • Inspect Suspension Ball Joints
  • Inspect Air Conditioner Compressor
  • Inspect Air Conditioner Refrigerant
  • Inspect Intercooler Hoses and Intake
  • Reset Service Indicator on Dash Display
  • Check for Outstanding Service Campaigns and Recalls
  • Connect Kia Diagnostic System (KDS) and check for DTC`s
  • Kia Roadside Assistance Activation
  • Perform Quality Control Road Test
This is more than just changing the oil..
Most of this does not look like much and to be frank anyone could do it but unless it is documented by someone who is qualified it's giving Kia the opportunity to deny warranty.
 
Oil change intervals don't tell the whole story. How often you drive your car, and how long each of your drives are, under what weather conditions, what fuel was in your tank, etc., are just a few other factors that could conspire to cause sludge in your engine.

Just as an example, there are cases where real nice classic cars were rarely taken for a long Sunday drive. Owner did start it every so often, drive it around the block, made sure everything seemed hunky dory, then put it right back into the garage. A few year later, the car started to have running issues and the mechanics found out the engine oil was milky and the internal bearings were all pitted and worn. What the owner did never got the engine hot enough to boil off the moisture, which built up in the engine and eventually corroded the bearings and internal parts.

Another factor... running high ethanol content can exacerbate this problem. ECU will enrich mixture on very cold startups, and there will be some unburn fuel swirling around. That unburnt fuel has high ethanol content in it. So... if you shut the engine off before it got up to operating temp nice and hot, all that unburnt fuel stays around and settle on the surfaces of your engine internals. The ethanol, being hydroscopic, will attract moisture, which will start to corrode your cylinder walls, bearings, and valvetrain.

The best way to combat this is make sure you go for a nice long drive often enough to rid your engine completely of moisture... especially in the winter months. Another way is to change your oil more often than what you might think you can get away with. Oil is cheap; engine overhaul is not.

These are just a couple of example use cases. There are far more ways to F* up your car/engines.


If your engine had sludge, that is nobody's fault but yours. Whatever you did - regardless of what you might argue was done, or not done - culminated in the formation of sludge in your engine. Own up to it and learn the lesson. That is the only way you'll change your ways and not let this happen again.


I myself have changed oil in all my vehicles and the intervals rarely exceeded 5k mile... and those were typically after long vacation drives of 2-3k miles of predominately long-duration highway cruises. Sometimes, less than 3k intervals - especially for Mrs. Volfy's car - ironically because she doesn't drive her car too much. Never once had engine trouble. Never once gave the dealer any excuse to blame me on DIY maintenance, I stopped keeping receipts prolly 20yrs ago, and no dealer service ever dared to mention a peep to me about it. Because I left no door open for them to.
Well, that was educational. Ima glad that the history of my six years with my Stinger typically includes drives long enough to reach operating temperatures, combined with a fair amount of freeway driving and some longish drives of half an hour and up, quite often at least one of those a week. But I think that changing full synthetic every 3-4K miles is excessive. I reduced the frequency to 6K miles or 12 months, whichever comes first.
 
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@Coolbreeze Do you know the original cause of the car failing to restart, only a mile away from your daughter's place?

It seems the dealership technicians were able to drive the vehicle in and out of the dealership (and apparently seize the engine), what did they do to "fix" it so it was drivable?
 
But I think that changing full synthetic every 3-4K miles is excessive. I reduced the frequency to 6K miles or 12 months, whichever comes first.
I don't necessarily disagree. However, I don't operate based on what might be EXCESSIVE. The only way to know what constitutes EXCESSIVE is first knowing what is JUST RIGHT. I would argue nobody really knows the mileage at which an oil change is JUST RIGHT.

Even if you send in your used oil for lab analysis and get a recommended interval. That is still based on how you drove - and under what environmental conditions - in that prior period. The lab's recommendation is thus just a projected guess. Besides, those lab analysis don't always detect reliably/accurately contaminants that are volatile - like the before-mentioned water and alcohol content. If you save your sample right after a 2-hr long drive, those volatile content would quite possibly not accurately represent what your engine had to endure 1k miles or 1-2 months prior to that long drive.

Every single oil/filter change is a PRE-EMPTIVE maintenance, which ideally is done when you oil is still perfectly good for service. So, by definition, every oil/filter change is EXCESSIVE. The only variable is EXCESSIVE BY HOW MUCH?

To me, the better question is: what is a PRUDENT?

For me, prudent means erring on the side of caution. I'd rather change out both oil and filter wayyy too early, than even slightly too late. If that constitutes EXCESSIVE in others' eyes, I'm perfectly fine with that.

The consequence of being EXCESSIVE is far less dire than what the OP finds himself in here.

Here's Mike's take on sludge formation. Unlike a lot of YT personalities, Mike is a ex-OEM engineer that has a lifetime of engineering/design/racing/consulting experience. While the video is discussing E85, a lot of the content applies to different use cases that could contribute to shortened engine life and sludge formation in general. Besides, the use of E85 (or E30) is fairly common in Stinger circles, so the relevance is far from trivial.
 
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Nemusím nutne nesúhlasiť. Nefungujem však na základe toho, čo by mohlo byť NADMERNÉ. Jediný spôsob, ako zistiť, čo predstavuje NADMERNÉ, je najprv vedieť, čo je SPRÁVNE. Tvrdil by som, že nikto skutočne nevie, koľko kilometrov je výmena oleja SPRÁVNA.

Aj keď pošlete použitý olej na laboratórnu analýzu a získate odporúčaný interval. To je stále založené na tom, ako ste jazdili - a za akých podmienok prostredia - v predchádzajúcom období. Odporúčanie laboratória je teda len predpokladaný odhad. Okrem toho tieto laboratórne analýzy nie vždy spoľahlivo/presne detegujú kontaminanty, ktoré sú prchavé – ako napríklad vyššie spomínaný obsah vody a alkoholu. Ak uložíte vzorku hneď po 2-hodinovej jazde, tento prchavý obsah by dosť možno presne nereprezentoval to, čo váš motor musel vydržať 1 000 kilometrov alebo 1-2 mesiace pred touto dlhou jazdou.

Každá výmena oleja/filtra je PREDEMPTÍVNA údržba, ktorá sa v ideálnom prípade vykonáva, keď je váš olej ešte úplne v poriadku. Takže podľa definície je každá výmena oleja/filtra NADMERNÁ. Jediná premenná je NADMERNÁ O KOĽKO?

Pre mňa je lepšia otázka: čo je to OBOZRETNÝ?

Rozvážny pre mňa znamená pochybiť na strane opatrnosti. Radšej vymením olej aj filter príliš skoro, ako čo i len trochu neskoro. Ak to v očiach iných predstavuje NADMERNÉ, som s tým úplne v poriadku.

Dôsledok toho, že je NADMERNÝ, je oveľa menej hrozný ako to, v čom sa OP nachádza.

Tu je Mikeov pohľad na tvorbu kalu. Na rozdiel od mnohých osobností YT je Mike bývalým inžinierom OEM, ktorý má celoživotné skúsenosti v oblasti inžinierstva/dizajnu/pretekania/poradenstva. Zatiaľ čo video hovorí o E85, veľa obsahu sa vzťahuje na rôzne prípady použitia, ktoré by mohli prispieť k skráteniu životnosti motora a tvorbe kalu vo všeobecnosti. Okrem toho je použitie E85 (alebo E30) v kruhoch Stinger pomerne bežné, takže relevantnosť nie je ani zďaleka triviálna.
AMEN
 
I am not a lawyer, but why would any get involved in this situation? What's in there for him?? And how much is it gonna cost for OP to hire him? Probably will be cheaper to buy the whole new engine. People are bringing lawer advice so often, like you have all these lawyers sitting on the side of the road with "will work for food" signs. Or, i guess, i don't understand how it works.
You never know and I think a few would be willing for at least a free consultation--especially for the "mis-placed receipts" I could be wrong though and he might not have much of a case, but OP won't know unless they get a consultation--especially since it sounds like a blatant end-run around Magnussen-Moss.

I'd still dox the dealership. Much like the recalls I think it would be good for the Stinger community to know not only where the good dealerships are, but which ones operate on the BOHiCA principle.
 
It sounds like you're still arguing with the dealership, when you should be discussing it with Kia corporate...what "guy" said they made their decision?

I would start out with the Kia America support website, and make sure you're talking to an actual person with a name & title vs. some outsourced call center drone. If that doesn't work, go on LinkedIn, type in "Kia America VP" (or Director, etc) and find somebody related to customer experience who's senior enough to get involved, and politely & concisely ask if they can help or point you to the right person.

It's Kia Corporate that has made the decision not to warranty the engine. The dealer can't decide on warranty. That's why the dealer has removed the parts and taken a video......they have to do a comprehensive report on the car and send it off to Kia Corporate. Kia Corporate decide yes or no to paying the dealer for warranty work. If Kia Corporate says no....the dealer says no.
 
@Coolbreeze Do you know the original cause of the car failing to restart, only a mile away from your daughter's place?

It seems the dealership technicians were able to drive the vehicle in and out of the dealership (and apparently seize the engine), what did they do to "fix" it so it was drivable?
@Coolbreeze ?
 
Thank all of you for your comments of support. After speaking with Kia Corp and was told that it had been decided against me, but I knew that I had done all I done all the oil changes required and take really good care of "My baby". I returned to the dealership and reminded the service manager of the note he had sent about what I had to do to prove my case. After hearing my side again he said he was going to look into it with Kia. He sent me a message that said that through some "Good Will" program, he told me Kia will give a brand new engine if I compromised. They will give a brand new engine for about $14,000 if I will cover in installation for $ 3,300.
I weigted the possible cost of a lawyer and that he was able to get me the new engine despite what corporate told me, I agreed to accept the offer.
After 2 months without my baby and driving around in a
"Kia Soul", I am "Joanzing" for my ride. Does anyone agree with my decision. The engine is in-country and will take about
16+ hours to install, after they get it.
Again, thank you my fellow Stinger Family, for your support and know that I am here for you.
Rick.
I never found any Stinger events in the Philadelphia area and suburbs, but I am moving Florida in a month and if anyone knows of a Stinger event in Florida, please contact me as I would like to be with my
" brothers and sisters" talking
STINGERS
 
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From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
So they are providing a brand new FREE engine are they? That they say is worth $14000 if you pay the installation cost (ONLY) of $3300?

Your post does not read that way but I presume this is what you meant.
 
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Glad you got it sorted out with Kia. $3300 for a brand new engine in a 5yr old car is a mighty good deal. Heck, if I were to get that option when mine turns 5yrs old, I might seriously consider it, even if the engine runs just fine.
 
My instant reaction was, heck of a deal, go for it.
 
Yep good deal all round... I had to wear my turbos because I changed dump pipes, but live and learn...
I ran an oil flush thru my engine yesterday and did a double flush just because ( approx 4000km's) with 5/30 full synthetic.
This is my 4th oil change including filter in 16000km's and its cheap insurance.

I stamp my own service book, if KIA don't want to warranty my car then so be it.

I bought it for what it is an awesome Grand Tourer not what would be covered if something went wrong with it...

Peace ✌️
 
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After hearing my side again he said he was going to look into it with Kia. He sent me a message that said that through some "Good Will" program, he told me Kia will give a brand new engine if I compromised. They will give a brand new engine for about $14,000 if I will cover in installation for $ 3,300.
I weighted the possible cost of a lawyer and that he was able to get me the new engine despite what corporate told me, I agreed to accept the offer.
After 2 months without my baby and driving around in a
"Kia Soul", I am "Joanzing" for my ride. Does anyone agree with my decision. The engine is in-country and will take about
16+ hours to install, after they get it.
Just my thoughts on this "compromise".

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it occurred to me that if Corporate KIA agreed to cover the engine swap, then all related costs are covered by them. The dealer should not be out of pocket. Normally this includes parts...and labour.

This is just my suspicion, but I think the dealer is double dipping here. They are getting compensated for the labour costs by KIA, and are also taking another $3,300 out of your pocket, as pure profit. If this is the case, they are scum.
I doubt you'll be able to prove it though, so I guess you have no choice but to accept their offer.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
Just my thoughts on this "compromise".

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it occurred to me that if Corporate KIA agreed to cover the engine swap, then all related costs are covered by them. The dealer should not be out of pocket. Normally this includes parts...and labour.

This is just my suspicion, but I think the dealer is double dipping here. They are getting compensated for the labour costs by KIA, and are also taking another $3,300 out of your pocket, as pure profit. If this is the case, they are scum.
I doubt you'll be able to prove it though, so I guess you have no choice but to accept their offer.
I kind of had the same thought as you..... But just a thought, unprovable, unfortunately.

Unless the @Coolbreeze gets on a call with corporate asking them if they can help with the labor costs, to which Kia corporate might say "Labour Costs? What labour costs, we are already covering everything".

That could be an interesting call
 
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I think Kia would be putting a brand new crate engine into it if it failed within a week of being driven out of the showroom.

On a 5 year old car that they have no knowledge of its use or service other than a couple of receipts for oil they are doing pretty well to offer anything.

Is Kia getting dozens of engine failures across this build over a day of manufacture? So they would be questioning why this car is a problem. Thrashed?

My guess is they are providing a refurbished engine. By that I mean getting any one of a hundred engines from a wrecker that is perfectly good and tidying it up, using any parts off your old engine that look better and so on.

This is going to cost them $2000 to $4000.

Their new car warranty states that they can use refurbished parts rather than repair or provide new. Already dealers do this when it comes to replacing a radio. They find one from a car with equivalent miles and put that in.

Then there is installation cost. 3 minutes work on a production line.

16 hours? Maybe but if so then they are charging over $200 an hour labour.....

I think you are getting a out of it for $3000 not $6000.

You won't notice the difference and when you come to sell it. You don't have to tell anyone.

Should be happy with that.
 
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$14k might be what a brand new engine would cost if any of us were to buy one directly from Kia, but I highly doubt it costs Kia anywhere close to that. If anything, $3.3k probably goes to pay for most of Kia's cost.
 
$14k might be what a brand new engine would cost if any of us were to buy one directly from Kia, but I highly doubt it costs Kia anywhere close to that. If anything, $3.3k probably goes to pay for most of Kia's cost.
Ya, I'm guessing that as well, that the $14K is retail. No way it's costing Kia that much.
Like you, I suspect that the $3,300 they are asking for is probably their internal costs. They won't be out of pocket.
 
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  • MSRP: $12,160.00
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