Experience/recommended tuning options for 3.3TT upgraded turbos + CPI

[919Stinger]

Post log here and we can try to figure it out too.

Finally getting around to this. Attached a couple different logs here (JB4 settings for each log in the file). Between having upgraded hybrid turbos, the JB4, and the EK1 Mini2+, and a flashed ECU with BEF from JB4, I am baffled where the issue may be in the limited boost/performance, unless it is just not the right BEF tune for my ECU...(really need a TCU as well)

 

[Yves998]

Finally getting around to this. Attached a couple different logs here (JB4 settings for each log in the file). Between having upgraded hybrid turbos, the JB4, and the EK1 Mini2+, and a flashed ECU with BEF from JB4, I am baffled where the issue may be in the limited boost/performance, unless it is just not the right BEF tune for my ECU...(really need a TCU as well)

Do you have EWG wires? If so why is your FF is at 80 for map2 and map4 logs?

Your WGDC are all maxed out at 99 for both map2/4 log. That's why the more boost you add the less ECU_PSI you see.

I also see Fuel_en values in your map4 pull so you didn't check bit0 to disable fuel wires. BEF already dialed AFR so you don't need JB4 to do anything with fueling. Unless you're on 11.9 afr BEF and want to run leaner than that for higher Emix/meth.



Show me screenshots of your bits and FF under user adjustment. This might be the answer for your problem.

 

[919Stinger]

Do you have EWG wires? If so why is your FF is at 80 for map2 and map4 logs? Your WGDC are all maxed out at 99 for both map2/4 log. That's why the more boost you add the less ECU_PSI you see.

I also see Fuel_en values in your map4 pull so you didn't even check bit0 to disable fuel wires.

Show me screenshots off your bits and FF under user adjustment. This might be the answer for your problem.

Yes I have EWG wires installed. I did what Terry @ BMS suggested, I ran FF at 80 and then also 20 to confirm the EWG wires where working as they should (on both maps2 and 4 - I didn't attached all the logs I ran) Those are the logs he told me to run to review. BUT, I submitted logs with the normal stock JB4 settings also prior to making any changes.

You think I need to confirm the shop reinstalled the EWG wires correctly and they are working as they should? Will try to attached other screen shots later. But interesting you have opinions and input that the JB4 tuner didn't have yet...

 

[919Stinger]

And regarding:

"I also see Fuel_en values in your map4 pull so you didn't check bit0 to disable fuel wires. BEF already dialed AFR so you don't need JB4 to do anything with fueling. Unless you're on 11.9 afr BEF and want to run leaner than that for higher Emix/meth." ​

So why was none of this mentioned to me by BMS after reviewing the logs I sent knowing the BEF I have flashed?

 

[Yves998]

Yes I have EWG wires installed. I did what Terry @ BMS suggested, I ran FF at 80 and then also 20 to confirm the EWG wires where working as they should (on both maps2 and 4 - I didn't attached all the logs I ran) Those are the logs he told me to run to review. BUT, I submitted logs with the normal stock JB4 settings also prior to making any changes.

You think I need to confirm the shop reinstalled the EWG wires correctly and they are working as they should? Will try to attached other screen shots later. But interesting you have opinions and input that the JB4 tuner didn't have yet...

Your EWG wires are absolutely working now since it shoots wgdc values to the moon. Do you have the overboosting logs to share? Is that overboost problem occuring with or without EWG wires?

Also that map0 log you shared really seems to be fine other than throttle close at shift, which can be avoided by short shifting.

 

[919Stinger]

Your EWG wires are absolutely working now since it shoots wgdc values to the moon. Do you have the overboosting logs to share? Is that overboost problem occuring with or without EWG wires?

Also that map0 log you shared really seems to be fine other than throttle close at shift, which can be avoided by short shifting.

I could not get the overboost to occur the last couple days at ALL after pushing it often. Strange it happened for a few days, then stopped.
But this is one log when it happened:

 

[Yves998]

And regarding:

"I also see Fuel_en values in your map4 pull so you didn't check bit0 to disable fuel wires. BEF already dialed AFR so you don't need JB4 to do anything with fueling. Unless you're on 11.9 afr BEF and want to run leaner than that for higher Emix/meth." ​

So why was none of this mentioned to me by BMS after reviewing the logs I sent knowing the BEF I have flashed?

They only menthioned bit0 in one of their forum post. I assume whoever reviewed your log assumed you already checked that bit and didn't even bother check that PID when checking the log. I have this PID selected on my JB4 app simply because I use fuel wires to lean out AFR on one of my bef sets at 11.8 afr.

 

[Yves998]

I could not get the overboost to occur the last couple days at ALL after pushing it often. Strange it happened for a few days, then stopped.
But this is one log when it happened:

There are some adaptive values related to wastegate position so it's possible that overboost problem can disappear later. Your WGDC shoots to 99 before the throttle close in this log. At this point I assume your wastegate set point is off. Which is a common problem for aftermarket hybird turbos across all platforms. Especially when stinger and G70's wastegate position is all over the place out of factory. Which is the reason why sometimes you see someone's map3 running 2-3 psi higher than our normal map5.

You can use your EK1 to read the wastegate position under ACC(no brake press button twice car on engine off) to see how off the wastegate position is. It supposed to be as close to 0 as possible. Your map0 throttle close also made me wonder if your wastegate position is off. If your EK1 can only read one bank don't bother update to the newest firmware (SXTH and NK broke up so now newer ek1 firmware can only flash their new format). Just use dealer's KDM computer or any Autel tablets every shop has to read it.

 

[919Stinger]

Your WGDC shoots to 99 before the throttle close in this log. At this point I assume your wastegate set point is off. You can use your EK1 to read the wastegate position under ACC(no brake press button twice car on engine off) to see how off the wastegate position is. It supposed to be as close to 0 as possible. Your map0 throttle close also made me wonder if your wastegate position is off. If your EK1 can only read one bank don't bother update to the newest firmware (SXTH and NK broke up so now newer ek1 firmware can only flash their new format). Just use dealer's KDM computer or any Autel tablets every shop has to read it.

From what I'm seeing in this log, the wgdc only maxes at 72 before the boost goes limp at 100 pedal ...Did you maybe mix up the throttle column @ 99 to the immediate right?

 

[Yves998]

From what I'm seeing in this log, the wgdc only maxes at 72 before the boost goes limp at 100 pedal ...Did you maybe mix up the throttle column @ 99 to the immediate right?

Ah I thought this this the throttle close over boost.

You mean it happens here? They both seems like padel and throttle fo at the same time tho. Can you descibe how the overboost feels like? this log did't really capture it then.

 

[919Stinger]

Ah I thought this this the throttle close over boost.View attachment 89392

You mean it happens here? They both seems like padel and throttle fo at the same time tho. Can you descibe how the overboost feels like? this log did't really capture it then.

View attachment 89393

You can see with the blue line (boost) it just drops and stays low after that. I just let of the gas when I felt it suddenly loose boost.

 

[Thomby]

Your WGDC are all maxed out at 99 for both map2/4 log. That's why the more boost you add the less ECU_PSI you see.

I don't follow this, can you explain? Does the ECU or EK1 see that the wastegates are fully open and try to pull their boost target?

You can use your EK1 to read the wastegate position under ACC(no brake press button twice car on engine off) to see how off the wastegate position is. It supposed to be as close to 0 as possible. Your map0 throttle close also made me wonder if your wastegate position is off

Is there a way to see actual WG position in the JB4/logs, or just the scaling it's trying to do under WGDC? I had a pretty noticeable WG rattle off-throttle around 1-2000 rpm, and I'm not sure if the actuators are disengaged with WGs free to move, holding them fully open, or holding them in some partial state.

I also see WGDC going from 50 to 75-85 when I floor it, with no EWG wires installed, and it's not clear to me whether the JB4 is just scaling up WG movement automatically under default settings, or whether it's seeing that the turbos aren't hitting target boost as quickly as they should and trying to close faster.

 

[Yves998]

I don't follow this, can you explain? Does the ECU or EK1 see that the wastegates are fully open and try to pull their boost target?


Is there a way to see actual WG position in the JB4/logs, or just the scaling it's trying to do under WGDC? I had a pretty noticeable WG rattle off-throttle around 1-2000 rpm, and I'm not sure if the actuators are disengaged with WGs free to move, holding them fully open, or holding them in some partial state.

I also see WGDC going from 50 to 75-85 when I floor it, with no EWG wires installed, and it's not clear to me whether the JB4 is just scaling up WG movement automatically under default settings, or whether it's seeing that the turbos aren't hitting target boost as quickly as they should and trying to close faster.

EK1 can read WG position but older ek1 firmware can only read one bank which you need two. That's why I suggested go borrow shop's Autel tablets. EWG wires supposed to work as that to lower/increase WGDC. You can try set FF to 45 or even 40 then log map3/4. You'll have to find the sweet spot for FF once EWG wires are installed.

 

[Thomby]

EK1 can read WG position but older ek1 firmware can only read one bank which you need two. That's why I suggested go borrow shop's Autel tablets. EWG wires supposed to work as that to lower/increase WGDC. You can try set FF to 45 or even 40 then log map3/4. You'll have to find the sweet spot for FF once EWG wires are installed.

Yeah I looked at the Autels but they're very pricey just to satisfy a curiosity. I know the EWGs scale up what the car is doing, usually to resolve overboost issues (by opening the WGs faster).

What I'm wondering is, when I see logs with increased WGDC while no EWGs are connected, is the JB4 just blindly saying "close the WGs faster" (expecting that the car's WG instructions won't keep up with maps asking for more boost), or is there a feedback/closed loop component where it's saying "you're not spooling up fast enough for the boost we want, ramp it up"?

Because I always thought EWGs were more to prevent overshooting than to add performance, but if the OEM ECU doesn't fully close them at heavy throttle and the JB4 adjusts for this, it should mean a quicker spool and fatter torque/power curve (even at the same peak numbers). But I haven't seen it advertised that way, or dynos demonstrating it.

 

[Yves998]

Yeah I looked at the Autels but they're very pricey just to satisfy a curiosity. I know the EWGs scale up what the car is doing, usually to resolve overboost issues (by opening the WGs faster).

What I'm wondering is, when I see logs with increased WGDC while no EWGs are connected, is the JB4 just blindly saying "close the WGs faster" (expecting that the car's WG instructions won't keep up with maps asking for more boost), or is there a feedback/closed loop component where it's saying "you're not spooling up fast enough for the boost we want, ramp it up"?

Because I always thought EWGs were more to prevent overshooting than to add performance, but if the OEM ECU doesn't fully close them at heavy throttle and the JB4 adjusts for this, it should mean a quicker spool and fatter torque/power curve (even at the same peak numbers). But I haven't seen it advertised that way, or dynos demonstrating it.

Without ewg wires it's just reading unaltered wastegate duty cycle at that moment.

JB4 adds them to help both overboost and higher rpm boost holding. It will also helping wastegate to be less shaky if you're running higher boost like 20psi before shift.

 

[Thomby]

Without ewg wires it's just reading unaltered wastegate duty cycle at that moment.

Sorry, maybe I'm slow...you're saying the JB4 is receiving the OEM ECU's wastegate position from the ODB port (since I don't have EWG wires hooked up), with the WGDC column in the logs displaying the modification it's trying to apply?

 

[Yves998]

Sorry, maybe I'm slow...you're saying the JB4 is receiving the OEM ECU's wastegate position from the ODB port (since I don't have EWG wires hooked up), with the WGDC column in the logs displaying the modification it's trying to apply?

If you don't have EWG wires yes it's reading untouched wgdc. If you have EWG wires then it's reading altered wgdc after EWG wires did it's magic. With EWG but disabled you'll read nothing but a flat 50. JB4 couldn't read WG position sadly that's why you need certain firmware of EK1 or an Autel tablet to do the job.

 

[Thomby]

If you don't have EWG wires yes it's reading untouched wgdc. If you have EWG wires then it's reading altered wgdc after EWG wires did it's magic. With EWG but disabled you'll read nothing but a flat 50. JB4 couldn't read WG position sadly that's why you need certain firmware of EK1 or an Autel tablet to do the job.

Ok, thank you for the help. I wasn't sure if the JB4 could pull wastegate position from the OBD port, or only from the signal the ECU sends to the actuators (which EWGs intercept and modify).

So in theory the JB4 should be able to log the unmodified WGDC alongside the value it actually passes on through the EWGs, the same way it shows ECU_PSI and actual Boost (with Target being its modifier).

 

[Yves998]

Ok, thank you for the help. I wasn't sure if the JB4 could pull wastegate position from the OBD port, or only from the signal the ECU sends to the actuators (which EWGs intercept and modify).

So in theory the JB4 should be able to log the unmodified WGDC alongside the value it actually passes on through the EWGs, the same way it shows ECU_PSI and actual Boost (with Target being its modifier).

Yup. It helped me to identify multiple screwed up tunes form SXTH. But with EWG wires installed it's another story, even if Terry said FF50 is doing nothing I still can find interference here and there. I even see someone overboosts with EWG wires on+FF50 but perfectly fine without it.

 

[Thomby]

even if Terry said FF50 is doing nothing I still can find interference here and there. I even see someone overboosts with EWG wires on+FF50 but perfectly fine without it.

Did he actually say that? Because JB4tech says WGDC of 50 is just a pass through of stock command, but with default settings (FF = 50) I still see my WGDC ramp up into the 70s at WOT, and drop into the 40s when I let off. I interpreted the FF offset as a multiplier to the JB4's targeting logic, rather than an absolute value.