Eibach's springs & sway bar kit soft setting.....sucks!!

[MerlintheMad]

Heavy exhilaration ..

I feel "heavy exhilaration" when accelerating too!

Just making sure I've got this right. If you say it feels like it wants to go straight ahead, that is understeer. So keeping the front stock, or the Eibach front on "soft", and setting the rear to "stiff", would induce oversteer, and probably solve that problem (if it is a problem).

 

[itguy61]

Bingo Merlin! That is correct.

 

[itguy61]

Well theres so many Eibach threads I can't remember where i posted last. Lol.

Second day review of Eibach front & rear sway bars on soft setting. Last post I posted about being slightly underwhelmed about the sways. Well today I did one side of the Blue mountains to the other with my junior expert in his normal back seat position. His 13 year old stance " An improvement especially the rear, not as much dip and wobble."

My take, front turns in better but my confidence levels haven't risen I get the feeling the car now tends to want to go straight ahead. Under force theres a sensation that the back wants to come around. But not as evident as before.

Back feels more planted, front could use some improvement.

Heavy exhilaration from stand still with steering off centre by any amount and theres still that violent waggle but moderately reduced. This may not be the sways to blame? I heard it's the diff quirk.

Money well spent? possibly not, but theres still the harder setting to try.

I have a suggestion, leave the front on soft and move the rear up to firm. That will reduce the plowing forward and make the car turn in more. Firming up the rear and leaving the front where it is should improve that.

My estimation of what is best on a RWD model would be stock front/Eibach rear on soft, or Eibach front on soft and Eibach rear on firm. Both of these reduce understeer.

 

[Ozstung]

I feel "heavy exhilaration" when accelerating too!

Just making sure I've got this right. If you say it feels like it wants to go straight ahead, that is understeer. So keeping the front stock, or the Eibach front on "soft", and setting the rear to "stiff", would induce oversteer, and probably solve that problem (if it is a problem).

Good information that certainly sounds what I should do.

Now I'll announce it here as I've told the Aussie contingent before. My auto spell on this Samsung S7 keeps auto correcting me ALL THE TIME. So a rule I've made is if I try twice to correct its premptivness and it refuses, you'll get the word it chooses! Let try again "Acceleration "..... it took yeah.

 

[Manaz]

Just be aware that swaybars can't save you from physics.

 

[Ozstung]

Just be aware that swaybars can't save you from physics.

They never told me that at school, what about Chemistry?

 

[MerlintheMad]

Just be aware that swaybars can't save you from physics.

But, sway bars can warn you of the physics that you are playing with. Surprise at speed is always a very, very, very bad thing.

 

[itguy61]

Merlin the way I think of the oversteer/understeer relationship is to put it on a line with the far left being severe understeer, middle is neutral and far right is severe overseer. Understeer is plowing forward and resisting the turn, neutral is going exactly where pointed and overseer is wanting to go sharper into the turn than steered. That being said in general:

Sway bars-stiffer front vs rear moves the slider to the left, stiffer rear in relation to the front moves the scale rightward. Front drive cars with most of the weight on the front generally need big rear bars and either no or small front bars. RWD more even but it seems the Stinger likes to have stiffness added to the rear. AWD you can tell me about that as you own one.

Understeer is generally a safer condition for less experienced drivers but boring and not good for responsive cornering. Let off the gas when you get into trouble and the car just slows and goes more neutral.

Oversteer is funner, but you better know how to handle it if it gets severe or you can go too sharp into the turn and hit something or worse lose the rear end and end up point a different direction ! Gotta know what to do with the throttle to correct or get out of.

I prefer neutral to slight oversteer in a RWD car.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Let off the gas when you get into trouble and the car just slows and goes more neutral.

That's good for us at "civilized" speeds. But at racing speeds, understeer is more deadly than oversteer, the reason being that a high speed corner will disappear from under the tires before letting off the gas reduces speed enough to return steering enough to make it around the corner. Whereas oversteer will produce the back end coming out (an incipient spin) and you can countersteer into it (like in the Kia commercial just posted yesterday).

Here's the JPEG shared for my benefit a few weeks ago. It's perfect:

 

[itguy61]

I love that, too funny! (but basically true)

 

[Ruturaj]

But at racing speeds, understeer is more deadly than oversteer

For a driver who knows what's he is doing. For novice at any speed understeer is safer.

 

[MerlintheMad]

For a driver who knows what's he is doing. For novice at any speed understeer is safer.

Understeer is "getting into the marbles", as I understand it. Two RL examples I recall, one fairly recent: Jay Howard got "pushed out into the marbles" at Indy in 2017: grip suddenly gone, massive induced understeer; he met the wall.

Then back in 1970, Piers Courage "slid wide" (not spun, slid; again, when you slide off a corner it is because of understeer) and went off the track.

The speed at the time, iirc, was c. 160 MPH. Understeer at those speeds is fatal to the car and sometimes the driver.

 

[itguy61]

Hope none of us get too confident due to our sway bars and get into something like that !

 

[turboAWD]

Understeer is "getting into the marbles", as I understand it. Two RL examples I recall, one fairly recent: Jay Howard got "pushed out into the marbles" at Indy in 2017: grip suddenly gone, massive induced understeer; he met the wall.

Then back in 1970, Piers Courage "slid wide" (not spun, slid; again, when you slide off a corner it is because of understeer) and went off the track.

The speed at the time, iirc, was c. 160 MPH. Understeer at those speeds is fatal to the car and sometimes the driver.

For RACERS, it may be bad - but note "INDUCED" understeer, due to marbles. For real-life, on the street? Let's say you're being a little too aggressive, getting to the point of "getting scared" around a turn.

Understeer: you panic, let off the gas/hit the brake, the car GAINS grip (less understeer), and there's a good chance you save it. Unless of course, your car has lift-oversteer. Experienced that once in my '84 GLI (I think).
Oversteer: you panic, let off the gas/hit the brake, the car LOSES grip (less oversteer), and you slide into the marbles..

The way to "save the car" with oversteer is to HIT THE GAS. This is counter-intuitive for most people. Even for people who KNOW about it, it's still not the easiest thing to HIT THE GAS when you think you're going too fast to make the turn.

 

[itguy61]

For RACERS, it may be bad - but note "INDUCED" understeer, due to marbles. For real-life, on the street? Let's say you're being a little too aggressive, getting to the point of "getting scared" around a turn.

Understeer: you panic, let off the gas/hit the brake, the car GAINS grip (less understeer), and there's a good chance you save it. Unless of course, your car has lift-oversteer. Experienced that once in my '84 GLI (I think).
Oversteer: you panic, let off the gas/hit the brake, the car LOSES grip (less oversteer), and you slide into the marbles..

The way to "save the car" with oversteer is to HIT THE GAS. This is counter-intuitive for most people. Even for people who KNOW about it, it's still not the easiest thing to HIT THE GAS when you think you're going too fast to make the turn.

Correct except in the oversteer scenario if you let off and it loses traction and spins out that is drop throttle oversteer. The car oversteers more and spins into the turn. You hit the wall or end up facing 180 degrees from your original direction.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Even for people who KNOW about it, it's still not the easiest thing to HIT THE GAS when you think you're going too fast to make the turn.

Until the back end breaks loose and comes out (skid now), jabs of oversteer are just that; and you instantly correct with the steering wheel. This is a lot easier and quicker reaction than letting off the gas and hitting the brake. You flick the steering wheel in the opposite direction of the turn. And if that isn't enough to stop the skid, and the back end is coming around (skidding out) it is the most natural thing (to me) to push the gas to power the counter steer and four-wheel drift out of the corner.

I don't know, yet, how AWD plays into that; changes that, if it does; or if AWD naturally powers through oversteer. I'm thinking it does the latter. What little experience I had last fall with oversteer coming down the canyon, it was sufficient to simply open the arc by flicking the steering wheel in the opposite direction to the right-hander I was in; the back end never felt like it was breaking out and around. So I didn't hit the gas (certainly not the brake!) and just let the counter flicks of the steering wheel see me through the turn. It was uncomfortable! But the AWD with traction and stability control engaged must have increased power to the proper wheels to power through the oversteer.

 

[Ozstung]

Down hill descent on corners I found it would turn in but I would be seen sawing to correct the direction and then the back would bite and hold straightening up. So from what you've all said this is Understeer. Tell me would the fact my wheels have been changed to ones 12lbs lighter make any difference?

As you all said going to change up to hard setting on front sway. More test before the 300km trip south to Canberra next Saturday.

 

[itguy61]

Do not stiffen up the front if you are getting understeer! Just making that worse. I changed my rear sway to stiff and the front is still on soft. It feels perfect to me now. I had both on soft but since I added the front it had gone to feeling like a bit of understeer. It is great now. Mine is RWD btw.

 

[Ozstung]

Thanks, noted will probably do the same then.

 

[itguy61]

Personally I think your springs already improved the handling significantly and adding the sways was not a big jump. Most of us have only added sways so we see the big jump. I think you get it tuned right it will be sweet.