Lease then Buyout - Contract Explanation

Read this on MVA's website today and wondering if anyone in the "double tax" states may be able to shed some light on their lease buyout experience. Any thoughts?

"In many cases, the vehicle is exempt from any excise tax provided that the lessee(s) identified on the lease agreement is/are the same as the new owner(s)."
Excerpt from Texas Motor Vehicle Tax Guide :
Conditional Sale (Lease/Purchase)
One taxable sale has occurred in a conditional sale (lease/purchase) transaction. The lessor retains title to the vehicle while payments are being made by the lessee. To be a conditional sales agreement (lease/purchase) it must meet one of the following conditions:
• the lessor transfers the motor vehicle to a lessee under a “must purchase” clause;
• the lessor transfers the motor vehicle to a lessee under an “option to purchase” clause at nominal value; or
• the lessor transfers the motor vehicle to a lessee at nominal value.
If the contract terms do not firmly establish at the onset that the contract is a conditional sale (lease/purchase), the lessor owes tax on the acquisition of the vehicle. When the lessee later takes title under such a conditional sale agreement, the tax due from the lessee is recalculated based on the lessee’s total consideration that includes the down payment, sum of payments and balloon payment. SPV may apply. Only separately stated interest may be excluded from the sales price to determine the sales tax due. The lessee receives credit for the tax paid up front at the time the motor vehicle was initially titled in the lessor’s name if this person is the initial lessee/purchaser.
 
Hi all-

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Stinger, but am completely intrigued by the lease buyout option. I don't think I quite understand, but I'm trying, and while doing some reading I've formed the following questions. I'd sure appreciate anyone's help in answering these so I'm well-armed to try to get through the dealer's torrent of confident-sounding-but-obviously-uniformed information. I'm in Tennessee, and I think some of this is location-specific, and if so, hopefully there's some location-specific insight.

1. What about taxes? I think I got this one. If they roll taxes into the cap cost (I think that's the term) and I don't pay any lease payments, I won't end up paying taxes twice, right? And if the tax is otherwise applied to a monthly charge, same thing: no way for me to be charged. I'd guess I'll be taxed on the car's value when I purchase it.

2. Residual value. How is the price I pay calculated? If it's some set market value, then I don't see how lease buyout helps me. If it's based on some set amount lower than the cap cost, then that's how it might help. But I'd love something concrete here.

Anything else?

Thanks so much in advance!
 
1. What about taxes? I think I got this one. If they roll taxes into the cap cost (I think that's the term) and I don't pay any lease payments, I won't end up paying taxes twice, right? And if the tax is otherwise applied to a monthly charge, same thing: no way for me to be charged. I'd guess I'll be taxed on the car's value when I purchase it.

2. Residual value. How is the price I pay calculated? If it's some set market value, then I don't see how lease buyout helps me. If it's based on some set amount lower than the cap cost, then that's how it might help. But I'd love something concrete here.

Anything else?

Thanks so much in advance!

I'm still trying to figure out #1 myself. The lease buyout helps because you get to take advantage of the lease cash.
 
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Taxes: Depends what state you are in. Some have posted a double taxation scheme, where the state taxes MSRP or Adj Capital Cost, then taxes the residual cost again!

Other states, do not tax the residual... need to check out your state laws or talk with a dealer (likely beyond sales floor folks) that understand... or my Preference, call KMF (sneak through their phone menu as best you can as I did) and get a live person to talk with to find out the tax ramifications...
 
Taxes: Depends what state you are in. Some have posted a double taxation scheme, where the state taxes MSRP or Adj Capital Cost, then taxes the residual cost again!

Other states, do not tax the residual... need to check out your state laws or talk with a dealer (likely beyond sales floor folks) that understand... or my Preference, call KMF (sneak through their phone menu as best you can as I did) and get a live person to talk with to find out the tax ramifications...

So how did you sneak by the KMF phone tree?
 
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Buyout is based on Adjusted Cap Cost only. Read the first post as it explains it all in more detail.

In a nutshell residual don't matter, money factor don't matter, term don't matter, only Adjusted Cap Cost. This value is the basis for the buyout. You will pay tax on this amount.

A normal lease consists of a base payment (adj cap cost minus residual) divided by term....a rent charge (adj cap cost + residual) multiplied by money factor then divided by term

Add this together and that's your lease payment. Tax is paid monthly, in most states, on this amount. This is your total monthly payment.

Buyout skips all that and goes off adj cap cost plus whatever small portion of rent was earned from lease date to buyout date.

Lease cash reduces gross cap cost so that's the benefit.
 
So how did you sneak by the KMF phone tree?
Ah, well it asked for my account number. I think I just punched in numbers to the "six digit" or whatever they asked. Then gave some 1234 last 4 digits of my SS number - ha. Eventually it kicked me to a live human being.
 
Taxes: Depends what state you are in. Some have posted a double taxation scheme, where the state taxes MSRP or Adj Capital Cost, then taxes the residual cost again!

Other states, do not tax the residual... need to check out your state laws or talk with a dealer (likely beyond sales floor folks) that understand... or my Preference, call KMF (sneak through their phone menu as best you can as I did) and get a live person to talk with to find out the tax ramifications...
I spoke to someone live at KMF and they couldn't answer any tax questions. They basically said they don't collect taxes. When you buyout, they simply turn the title over to you. You are responsible for taxes when you go to get the title in your name. Remember, since it was a lease, you are not listed as the "Owner" on the title. I'm still waiting on a callback from the Texas Comptroller but I don't think that's ever going to come. I'm probably just going to call the dealer today and speak to someone in finance. It's either that or actually go down to the tax office to ask someone in person.
 
I spoke to someone live at KMF and they couldn't answer any tax questions. They basically said they don't collect taxes. When you buyout, they simply turn the title over to you. You are responsible for taxes when you go to get the title in your name. Remember, since it was a lease, you are not listed as the "Owner" on the title. I'm still waiting on a callback from the Texas Comptroller but I don't think that's ever going to come. I'm probably just going to call the dealer today and speak to someone in finance. It's either that or actually go down to the tax office to ask someone in person.
As Cosmo Kramer once said "I might just have to go down there – and talk to them!"
 
He is absolutely right, after the purchase the dealer isn’t involved anymore in the finance. I encourage my customers to do a lease buyout on the stingers for the lease cash rebate
There are several states where you need to deal directly with the dealer to buy out the lease. I called Kia Finance for the buyout and they informed me that they were unable to pull the number because Florida is one of the states where you are required to go through the/ a KIA dealer. My dealer was delaying and wouldn't call me back so I went to my previous Kia Dealer and they provided a number right away and asked me to come by to see the details. It was higher than I anticipated so I drove to the dealer that didn't call be back. They gave me a price that was lower and closer to what I estimated. They still tried to upcharge me but I got the fees pulled off. There are several other states besides Florida where you cannot deal with KIA finance directly.
 
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From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
OK, so finally got a straight answer and it was from the Finance guy at the dealership no less :
1) when you lease to purchase, you lose the powertrain warranty on the vehicle because you are technically the 2nd owner. this holds true whether you buyout the lease or wait till lease maturity and purchase at residual. you still retain the 5yr 60k mile limited warranty though.
2) in the state of Texas, you also get taxed twice when lease to purchase. upon lease inception, you pay full taxes on the purchase price of the vehicle (technically, KMF gets charged the taxes and they pass those charges onto you). then at lease buyout, you have to pay taxes on the buyout price because technically, it's a separate sale. same holds true if you purchase at lease maturity for the residual. you would pay taxes on that residual amount. in my case, KMF benefited from the tax savings of my trade-in, not me. the only thing I can take solace in, is that I only paid a small amount of tax upfront due to my trade, instead of having no trade and paying full tax on over $40k.
Bottom line, if you are looking to own a Stinger in Texas, don't lease!
 
Okay, just got back from the dealer. I found out before I went that in Tennessee, they don't charge tax up front and add to the lease, so that should be helpful (you get taxed on each individual lease payment).

But they're saying they don't know how much I will save by doing this. A dealer over in North Carolina says Kia won't do this at all - it's impossible. The local dealer says they will, and they got off of the phone with KMF and they say I have to pay three whole payments before I can buy it out or they will take away the lease cash. I have no idea how to verify this.

The other part I'm working on is understanding some of the terms in the lease contract (which I got to see today, a real paper copy of the thing).

Here's part 22 Early Termination:

A. LESSEE’S RIGHT TO TERMINATE EARLY. You have the right to terminate this Lease early (before the end of the Lease Term), by returning the Vehicle to us or other person we designate, and paying the applicable Early Termination Liability set forth in Section 22C below.

B. LESSOR’S RIGHT TO TERMINATE EARLY. We may terminate this Lease early if you are in default (see Section 25C below). If we terminate this Lease early, you will owe us the applicable Early Termination Liability set forth in Section 22C below.

C. EARLY TERMINATION LIABILITY. If this Lease is terminated early pursuant to Sections 22A or 22B of this Lease, you agree to pay us the sum of items (1) through (4) as follows: (1) any unpaid Monthly Payments accrued up to the termination date, plus (2) official fees and taxes in connection with the termination, plus (3) all other amounts due and owing under this Lease, except excess wear and mileage, plus (4) an early termination charge calculated as follows:
(i) Lessee’s Early Termination:
(a) if you terminate this Lease more than 120 days before the end of the Lease Term,
the early termination charge you owe (provided the Vehicle is not a Total Loss)
will be equal to the lesser of the Standard Formula and the Remaining Payments
Formula defined below.

(x) Standard Formula: The sum of (1) the difference, if any, between the Adjusted
Lease Balance and the Vehicle's Realized Value, plus (2) an early termination
fee in an amount equal to the Turn-In Fee disclosed in Section 4A of this
Lease, and plus (3) the actual expenses we incur in connection with preparing
for sale and selling the vehicle, including our third party auction fees and costs
for transportation and reconditioning of the Vehicle prior to sale.

(y) Remaining Payments Formula: The sum of: (1) all scheduled monthly Lease
payments from the termination date through the end of the Lease Term, plus
(2) as permitted by applicable law, any excess mileage, plus (3) as permitted
by applicable law, any excess wear and use (See Section 24A, below), and
plus (4) the Tum-In Fee amount disclosed in Section 4A of this Lease.

(b) if you terminate this Lease 120 days or less before the end of the Lease Term,
the early termination charge you owe will be the amount equal to the Remaining
Payments Formula, provided the Vehicle is not a Total Loss.

(c) If you terminate this Lease early in connection with a Total Loss, the early
termination charge you owe will be the Standard Formula, minus the early
termination fee referenced in Section 22C(i)(x)(2) above (‘Total Loss EarlyTermination Charge”).

(ii) Lessor‘s Early Termination: the early termination charge if we terminate this Lease
early will be the amount equal to the Standard Formula: provided that, If we repossess
the Vehicle, in lieu of the early termination fee component of the Standard Formula,
you will be charged the actual expenses we incur in connection with repossessing,
obtaining and storing the Vehicle.

D. ADJUSTED LEASE BALANCE. Your Adjusted Lease Balance is the Adjusted Capitalized
Cost disclosed on the front of this Lease, less all depreciation and other amortized
amounts accrued up to the termination date. calculated according to the Constant Yield
Method. "Constant Yield Method" means the method of determining the rent charge portion
of each base monthly payment under which the rent charge for each month is earned in
advance by multiplying the constant rate implicit in the Lease times the balance subject
to rent charge as it declines during the scheduled Lease Term. At any time during the
scheduled Lease Term, the balance subject to rent charge is the difference between the
Adjusted Capitalized Cost and the sum of (1) all depreciation and other amortized amounts
accrued during the preceding months and (2) the first base monthly payment.

E. REALIZED VALUE. If you obtain an independent appraisal (see below), the Realized Value is the appraised amount. If the Vehicle is a total loss, the Realized Value is the amount of any insurance proceeds we receive under your insurance plus any amount received from any other party in payment of the loss; if there is no payment, the Realized Value is zero. In all other cases, the Vehicle‘s Realized Value will be, at our option: (1) the gross wholesale sales price we receive for the Vehicle at disposition; (2) the fair wholesale market value of the Vehicle at termination according to a recognized used vehicle guide
customarily used by motor vehicle dealers selected by us, including, but not limited to, Black Book, or other commercially reasonable valuation methodology, taking into consideration the Vehicles mileage and physical condition or (3) any amouht you and we agree to in writing after termination.
F. INDEPENDENT APPRAISAL. You may obtain, at your expense, a professional appraisal by an independent third party, agreed to by you and us, of the value that could be realized at sale of the Vehicle at wholesale. The appraisal amount shall be final and binding.
 
OK, so finally got a straight answer and it was from the Finance guy at the dealership no less :
1) when you lease to purchase, you lose the powertrain warranty on the vehicle because you are technically the 2nd owner. this holds true whether you buyout the lease or wait till lease maturity and purchase at residual. you still retain the 5yr 60k mile limited warranty though.
2) in the state of Texas, you also get taxed twice when lease to purchase. upon lease inception, you pay full taxes on the purchase price of the vehicle (technically, KMF gets charged the taxes and they pass those charges onto you). then at lease buyout, you have to pay taxes on the buyout price because technically, it's a separate sale. same holds true if you purchase at lease maturity for the residual. you would pay taxes on that residual amount. in my case, KMF benefited from the tax savings of my trade-in, not me. the only thing I can take solace in, is that I only paid a small amount of tax upfront due to my trade, instead of having no trade and paying full tax on over $40k.
Bottom line, if you are looking to own a Stinger in Texas, don't lease!
Well, I hope this is good news for you. I called KMF and asked this a month or so ago. That claim by the dealer finance guy is flatly untrue. I validated this with KFM. I will further validate that in writing from KMF, but they clearly laid out why that is not the case with a lease buyout (I can't recall the exact term or reasoning) but I was laid to rest that the 10yr/100k deal stands.

We might need someone to go back to KMF now and validate this. But it was very clear to me it stands. I can't recall, but it may have been because it's under 7,500 miles and thus still deemed a new car. All bets may be off past the milage or a certain time period however...
 
There are several states where you need to deal directly with the dealer to buy out the lease. I called Kia Finance for the buyout and they informed me that they were unable to pull the number because Florida is one of the states where you are required to go through the/ a KIA dealer. My dealer was delaying and wouldn't call me back so I went to my previous Kia Dealer and they provided a number right away and asked me to come by to see the details. It was higher than I anticipated so I drove to the dealer that didn't call be back. They gave me a price that was lower and closer to what I estimated. They still tried to upcharge me but I got the fees pulled off. There are several other states besides Florida where you cannot deal with KIA finance directly.
Wow, this is so crazy. This is so nutty and bad how dealerships across the land have lobbied and lobbied and pushed the laws with their handmaiden politicians it's unbelievable. Count the ways we can screw thy customer. Direct sales like Tesla - PLEASE!
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
You are mixing up early termination with early purchase option .

In what part of the contract does the early purchase option appear? I'll check that out when I'm at the dealer again tomorrow.
 
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Well, I hope this is good news for you. I called KMF and asked this a month or so ago. That claim by the dealer finance guy is flatly untrue. I validated this with KFM. I will further validate that in writing from KMF, but they clearly laid out why that is not the case with a lease buyout (I can't recall the exact term or reasoning) but I was laid to rest that the 10yr/100k deal stands.

We might need someone to go back to KMF now and validate this. But it was very clear to me it stands. I can't recall, but it may have been because it's under 7,500 miles and thus still deemed a new car. All bets may be off past the milage or a certain time period however...

I think I've got this one covered:

From a Kia 2017 Warranty Manual (https://www.kia.com/us/k3/content/media/all/warranty/2017_Warranty.pdf):

Original Owner An Original Owner is defined as the first retail purchaser or lessee of the Kia Vehicle who takes delivery of the Kia Vehicle on its Date of First Service. If the Kia Vehicle was first placed in service as a lease vehicle, and the lessee purchases the vehicle at the end of the lease, the 120 month/100,000 mile Power Train Limited Warranty remains in effect. The Power Train Limited Warranty is not transferable to subsequent owners.
 
In what part of the contract does the early purchase option appear? I'll check that out when I'm at the dealer again tomorrow.

I have an older Kia lease contract, but there it's section 23 B- Purchase Option Before Maturity. You have an option to purchase the vehicle at any time before the scheduled maturity date if you are not in Default, under the terms and conditions in section 9, except that the Purchase Price will be the Adjusted Lease Balance figured according to section 22D above.

Section 9 refers to end of lease term purchase option and has the purchase option fee included, along with the note about taxes tags, and licenses.

Section 22D has all the details for the adjsuted lease balance using the constant yield method.
 
I think I've got this one covered:

From a Kia 2017 Warranty Manual (https://www.kia.com/us/k3/content/media/all/warranty/2017_Warranty.pdf):

Original Owner An Original Owner is defined as the first retail purchaser or lessee of the Kia Vehicle who takes delivery of the Kia Vehicle on its Date of First Service. If the Kia Vehicle was first placed in service as a lease vehicle, and the lessee purchases the vehicle at the end of the lease, the 120 month/100,000 mile Power Train Limited Warranty remains in effect. The Power Train Limited Warranty is not transferable to subsequent owners.

Original Owner

An Original Owner is defined as the first retail purchaser or lessee of the Kia Vehicle who takes delivery of the Kia Vehicle on its Date of First Service. If the Kia Vehicle was first placed in service as a lease vehicle, and the lessee purchases the vehicle at the end of the lease, the 120 month/100,000 mile Power Train Limited Warranty remains in effect. The Power Train Limited Warranty is not transferable to subsequent owners.

Okay, so it covers a lesee buying the car at the END of the lease, but it does not state what happens if the lessee purchase the care BEFORE the end of the lease... Interesting...
 
Bottom line, if you are looking to own a Stinger in Texas, don't lease!

This is why I'm investigating the balloon finance option. My dealer is offering this financing with lease cash back so I won't have to pay tax a second time. They're saying that because it's financed vs. leased, my name is on the title and won't be subject to tax with a refinance. There's still a couple of details I'm waiting to confirm (buyout fees and if there is any minimum time required). There isn't a first payment required at signing. I'll need to see all of this in writing, but I'm hopeful.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
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