3.3TT Lap3 and Turbokits: Hybrid Turbos 600whp

[STINGER]

Very nice , would be nice to see the dyno chart overlapped with the bpu stock turbo.

Also why does it smoke so much after the run?

 

[playerbase]

Yes, in this case it looks like both the compressor and turbine wheels have been replaced with bigger ones. They usually machine out the inside of the housings to fit the bigger wheels.

There are pros and cons to doing this, the obvious pros is that its a direct replacement and you get to re-use all the parts like the downpipe and intake etc.

What would the cons be? I assume they can't be too bad considering this might be a potential option for us down the road.

 

[gingfreaccs]

Very nice , would be nice to see the dyno chart overlapped with the bpu stock turbo.

Also why does it smoke so much after the run?

My stock ones had already caked oil on my old pipes which I reused.

 

[STINGER]

What would the cons be? I assume they can't be too bad considering this might be a potential option for us down the road.

No cons to worry about in my view, just the transmission and how it will handle the additional power as I believe its a weak point, but for weekend drivers like me I don't think its an issue. The only way to find out is having more cars on the road making this power and seeing what issues arise.

 

[STINGER]

My stock ones had already caked oil on my old pipes which I reused.

How is the additional fuel requirement addressed?

 

[gingfreaccs]

How is the additional fuel requirement addressed?

It’s on Oem still

 

[STINGER]

It’s on Oem still

So, like the large turbo kits from Lap3 the WMI is the source for the additional fuel requirements? If so, what size jet/s are you running and WMI mix?

Any plans to try the HPFP/LPFP?

 

[gingfreaccs]

So, like the large turbo kits from Lap3 the WMI is the source for the additional fuel requirements? If so, what size jet/s are you running and WMI mix?

Any plans to try the HPFP/LPFP?

I don’t know about “fuel requirements.” But on my lap3 stage 2.5 I’ve been using meth for cooling and preventing pre-detonation. I didn’t change the settings or the nozzles. Been using dual injection 70/30 by volume. 250cc nozzle and 400cc nozzle.

I don’t think I need HpFP/LPFP upgrades. It’s running perfect right now so I don’t need that. I’m minimalistic, only add stuff that I absolutely need.

 

[GennyGuy]

Curious how much power the hybrids makes on just pump gas or E85. Not going to be running meth.

 

[STINGER]

I don’t know about “fuel requirements.” But on my lap3 stage 2.5 I’ve been using meth for cooling and preventing pre-detonation. I didn’t change the settings or the nozzles. Been using dual injection 70/30 by volume. 250cc nozzle and 400cc nozzle.

I don’t think I need HpFP/LPFP upgrades. It’s running perfect right now so I don’t need that. I’m minimalistic, only add stuff that I absolutely need.

Minimilistic is a good approach.

by "fuel requirements" I mean they were able to rely on the WMI to hit 600whp rather than increasing the fuel by installing HPFP etc. I think it is well documented that at circa 500whp both the stock turbos and fuel system are maxed out, I believe Lap3 was able to take it to 600whp by relying more on the WMI.

Would be interesting to see how much power they will be able to make without WMI on both the stock system and then with the HPFP etc.

How much psi was it running for the 600whp runs?

 

[STINGER]

Curious how much power the hybrids makes on just pump gas or E85. Not going to be running meth.

Yeah, same here, I run WMI for cooling and safety only. Not sure why people haven't tried & tested the HPFP/LPFP yet since tunes and turbo kits have been available for while now.

 

[turboAWD]

Why does it need WMI?

The discussion thread on the FB group said "WMI is a must" by, if I have the right username->name connection, gingfreaccs / Jericho himself. No other explanation given.

Like 3-5 people asked "what about pump gas / E30 / E85" and I don't think one of those has been replied to, last time I looked.

I mean, even with their basic tune, Lap3 is already saying "WMI strongly recommended" or something. Yeah, there are a couple of people running lap3 + cpi, but it seems like lap3 doesn't really care about the e30/e85 market and just tests / builds everything assuming wmi..

Edit: to be clear, after doing a fair amount of mods on my last car (turbo, injectors, DP, TMIC, valve body, BBK, etc), my plans are right now to not get into that level of build again - too much of a pain to smog, get it worked on, etc. Especially now that they are checking VIN / checksum numbers from the OBD port, so I doubt a lap3 tune could pass smog, and without that, modified turbos could blow things up, etc. And WMI would immediately fail a visual anyway. Sure, I'm still a few years away, but I do like to plan ahead

 

[Stiletto]

Yeah, same here, I run WMI for cooling and safety only. Not sure why people haven't tried & tested the HPFP/LPFP yet since tunes and turbo kits have been available for while now.

I'm gonna guess the $1400-1800 (HPFP) and $850 (LPFP) price tags are a major factor. Granted, folks who can drop $15000 for the Lap3 turbo kit probably aren't sweating a couple grand extra for more fuel flow capacity.

 

[gingfreaccs]

The discussion thread on the FB group said "WMI is a must" by, if I have the right username->name connection, gingfreaccs / Jericho himself. No other explanation given.

Like 3-5 people asked "what about pump gas / E30 / E85" and I don't think one of those has been replied to, last time I looked.

I mean, even with their basic tune, Lap3 is already saying "WMI strongly recommended" or something. Yeah, there are a couple of people running lap3 + cpi, but it seems like lap3 doesn't really care about the e30/e85 market and just tests / builds everything assuming wmi..

Edit: to be clear, after doing a fair amount of mods on my last car (turbo, injectors, DP, TMIC, valve body, BBK, etc), my plans are right now to not get into that level of build again - too much of a pain to smog, get it worked on, etc. Especially now that they are checking VIN / checksum numbers from the OBD port, so I doubt a lap3 tune could pass smog, and without that, modified turbos could blow things up, etc. And WMI would immediately fail a visual anyway. Sure, I'm still a few years away, but I do like to plan ahead

Hey, don’t be putting words in my mouth . All it said in the post what stuff was running.

Pump gas 93 w/ e30.
Methanol injection
22-23psi
Nowhere does it say “a must” but I’d rather be safe than sorry it was like 74 degrees that day and intake temps were 100 inside the dyno.

I literally got the turbos, got them installed, break-in period about 400 miles, changed ecu then full send at the dyno. No other things were changed. Everything stayed the same as far as parts go, except I switched my oem secondaries to ark secondaries to make it full catless.

Also why would you get smog check without going back to stock ecu?

I’ve been testing, monitoring and full sending it here and there for the past 3 weeks and so far so good!

Here is my mods list for those lazy to go on the page.

Mods list:
Lap3 stage 3.5 ECU tune for hybrid turbo
Turbokits Hybrid Turbos
Lap3 Protuner with methanol injection dual nozzle
NGT Performance Throttle Body Spacer
Mishimoto FMIC
Lap3 Catless Downpipe
Ark Secondaries
Borla Catback
AEM intakes
Transmission cooler
OEM Diverter valve
HKS plugs

These are the only things I have as far as performance parts go…. I’m currently at 65k miles. Been tuned since 5k miles, and been using methanol injection since 7k miles. Notice I also don’t use OCC, or aftermarket BOV.

 

[gingfreaccs]

Just remember this is the very first one to be installed successfully here in the states. I got it installed May 7th and had a couple of error codes, which is install issue on my end. It took 2 weeks between me, Jesse @ TK, David Chung @ Lap3 and figure out the problems and I had a deadline to work with before set dyno date.

Not to mention I still have other more important priorities than this. Everyone is just stunned that we got 600whp with this setup. So it will be some time before I find out more on what I need or what I don’t need. But so far everything is perfect. I’ve driven about 780 miles with it on and so far I haven’t had any issues since we’ve fixed the problem from the initial install. Handed out a couple of gap sauce here and there and so far so good

I’m also not obligated to share anything to anyone, there’s no incentive for me, heck I honestly don’t want to share this with anyone I’m just excited that I don’t need to buy BTK anymore in order to achieve 600whp. My initial goal for getting this was 550whp. 570 pushing it. But 600whp on pump gas 93, e30 mix and meth and I didn’t need to change any of my setup… that’s just mind blowing. I’ve relayed all my data and findings to TK and Lap3 so future people that gets this will have more improvement and easier installation. I still shared this because it’s freaking awesome.

 

[Devin]

What would be the point of not sharing this, unless you are under a NDA? Sharing info is how the community works.

 

[gingfreaccs]

There’s no NDA. I’m just saying, I’m not obligated to share anything to anybody.

 

[GennyGuy]

What would be the point of not sharing this, unless you are under a NDA? Sharing info is how the community works.

I think he's reminding people that it's a courtesy, not information that people have a right to. It's his car, his project, his risks. And to be fair, his first post says go to FB for more info.

@gingfreaccs thanks for mods list and sharing miles on vehicle. My questions/concerns aren't directed at you which is why I said LAP3 should get a representative here on the forum. Or they could post on their website, but it may not be ready for broader public? What have you observed in your 60-130 if you've gone that high. Stock vs hybrid?

 

[gingfreaccs]

I think he's reminding people that it's a courtesy, not information that people have a right to. It's his car, his project, his risks. And to be fair, his first post says go to FB for more info.

@gingfreaccs thanks for mods list and sharing miles on vehicle. My questions/concerns aren't directed at you which is why I said LAP3 should get a representative here on the forum. Or they could post on their website, but it may not be ready for broader public? What have you observed in your 60-130 if you've gone that high. Stock vs hybrid?

The reason why I wanted people to go to FB is cuz I’m just compiling everything in one place so I do not have to repeat myself…. And here we are .
Jesse and David are already answering questions on there so I do not have to. They’ll come around here eventually. There’s way too many groups, forums etc so I’m funneling everything in one place. 60-130 I just tried this morning, unfortunately my tires are on its last legs so I can’t do a proper pull…. Anything above 90 for me right now is feeling dangerous. During my first pull at the dyno, the car was slipping on the rollers… that’s how bad my tires are. We had to air down the tires to get traction on the dyno. I’ll get new tires eventually when I get to it.

 

[TurboKits.com]

I'd be interested to know from them why anyone should choose their hybrid turbo option over a competitor. When I reached out to them in regards to going hybrid turbo (pure turbo) vs full turbo package (their $12K+ offering), they informed me that "there have been too many failures of hybrid turbos on the market." They stated that was one of the reasons that they don't carry them. I never put too much stock into dynos because they can be manipulated easily. I am definitely looking forward to what they accomplish on the track with their option, but more importantly why their's is structurally better than another. They also mentioned that drag strip is important benchmark for them.

Maybe one of the reps or David from LAP3 can chime in and explain what makes their product superior? I think it will help all of us that are considering what to do next or how far we want to take our cars. Pricing will help to .

One post asked what's different between these and the pures. Here is our reply: It's a long list, but I'll cut it down to the major ones. The stock shafts on the stock turbos are puny, they can and have snapped with the extra weight of an upgraded wheel and more PSI (shaft speed). What we did was develop a 5 axis CNC bearing housing, that drops right into place of the stock one, but accepts a larger turbine shaft size for better durability and ability to handle higher shaft speeds, we then took it one step further and removed the journal bearing guts and upgraded it to dual ball bearing. It's essentially a completely redesigned turbo CHRA, which we then machine into the stock housings for easy fitment.