3.3TT Should I bother with intakes?

[Devin]

Right now, I’m deciding what exhaust system to get (I’m indecisive enough that I’ve just started a spreadsheet). I’ll get a Drgay and do some pulls with it to get a baseline.

Paging Dr. Gay....

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Thanks @all for the clear up and info!

Right now my car is stock so I will probably wait before going with aftermarket intakes.

 

[Ric 'Ochet]

The factory snorkel is the restriction there. It has a MUCH smaller intake hole and does two bends. Once you pressurize that box it is surprisingly efficient at moving air through it with a free flowing filter.

my $.025

Here is where I see the warranty potentially becoming an issue with the snorkel change -

The larger ones allow for more air flow, and also the potential for water, snow, dirt, puddles etc as well. The bends in the OE snorkel make it more difficult for outside elements to make their way directly into the system - which are the vehicles lungs. Even with all of the at home DIY scientific calculations of water/dirt whatever NOT making it into the airbox (like direct water from a hose) things are a little different at 70 mph in rain, splashing and puddles - the potential to lock the motor goes up exponentially. Kia has millions more than most of us do to test this and I'd like to believe would have taken that into consideration when building the Stinger to satisfy our need for better air intake (and keep up with the Germans).

If it were not my daily driver I might think differently but just trying to give a little perspective to what a dealer may/may not consider as voiding the warranty. If it were to happen (worst case) it falls back on the vehicle owner to prove the changes didn't break the car, not Kia.

Keep the OE parts.

 

[Dodger Blue]

Big mouth snorkels have a bend in them too, honestly if any objects manage to squeeze past the grill, through the snorkel, go into the engine bay, penetrate the filter and damage your engine, you were already going to be F'd. And if you're getting enough water in there to hydrolock the engine you're probably nose-down in a lake.

 

[stoopid]

I decided to skip the snorkels, for my needs it wasn't worth even the smallest risk in either having water make its way into the engine, or to draw attention in a warranty claim situation. Were I looking for additional power and/or tuned, then snorkels and a high flow filter all day. The stock box in the Stinger isn't the restriction, this has been discussed and documented in other threads.

 

[Ric 'Ochet]

Big mouth snorkels have a bend in them too, honestly if any objects manage to squeeze past the grill, through the snorkel, go into the engine bay, penetrate the filter and damage your engine, you were already going to be F'd. And if you're getting enough water in there to hydrolock the engine you're probably nose-down in a lake.

Water has no direction though - its not solid like debris so the grill adds little benefit (less than 2 ounces of water in a cylinder can hydrolock an engine). That said I was under the impression there were no turns in the snorkel leading me to making the statement. If there are similar bends then it may be okay, but again like anything there is an inherent risk.

I only bring this up as my mechanic also builds race cars. When I asked him his opinion this was his response.

 

[Revvdmedia]

Especially considering the price, always go with a piggyback before intakes simply due to the power increase, if you have the fuel to support it. If you're not willing to take warranty risk, don't mod the car. The likelihood of having a denied warranty claim is entirely dependent on what failed, who the tech was and the dealer's stance. Corporate can come into play with the claim, but I've heard first hand stories that the tech can make the call on whether or not he reports the mods.

One downside I can quantity by my own datalogs is that an open cone filter without a well designed heat shield will see a large increase in IAT at idle. I regularly saw over 160F when I ran mine that way, on a hot day. It would take a good few seconds to cool down close to ambient when making a 1/4 mile run, and in the span of 12-13 seconds, every second of pulled timing/boost works against you.

I could not best a 13.3s 1/4 mile with JB4 Map 2 on my GT AWD, the hot starting intake temps may have very well played a role in that. Seems like after the launch, it pulled well, but the 0-60MPH time was not good. 60-100+ felt much stronger.

 

[Sabs]

I went from running a 12.96 1/4 mile @ 108 mph to a 12.62 1/4 mile @ 111 mph without a tune simply by adding snorkels and the AEM filter.

Are your only mods the snorkels and filters? If so, that's a very impressive time.

 

[Devin]

Water has no direction though - its not solid like debris so the grill adds little benefit (less than 2 ounces of water in a cylinder can hydrolock an engine). That said I was under the impression there were no turns in the snorkel leading me to making the statement. If there are similar bends then it may be okay, but again like anything there is an inherent risk.

I only bring this up as my mechanic also builds race cars. When I asked him his opinion this was his response.

Oddly enough my shopvac can pump water around quite a few bends. I believe that the surface area of the airbox is what prevents water from infiltrating. It has to contend with gravity and a huge (compared to the size of the inlet and outlet) area.

 

[StingerJefferson]

Acknowledging how this is probably not the most actionable comment, I do remember reading in another thread that the Velossa Tech (sp?) folks did a good bit of aggressive testing around the water question and couldn’t get more than a couple drops anywhere near the filter.

Now, take my spotty memory and the manufacturer’s claims with however many grains of salt you deem appropriate, but I’ve also not heard of anyone running into any real world problems.

That said, risk tolerance is different for everyone! Not dinging anyone who doesn’t want to put the things on.

> One downside I can quantity by my own datalogs is that an open cone filter without a well designed heat shield will see a large increase in IAT at idle.

Someone else asked earlier if there was any downside to intakes, and I referenced the debate around temp. I have the impression there’s not really any intakes out there with a well designed heat shield. So I’m going to skip those for now at least.

I’ve got my cart filled with scoops, exhaust, sway bars and brake pads and I just...have to make sure I’m buying the exhaust I want...

 

[stoopid]

Acknowledging how this is probably not the most actionable comment, I do remember reading in another thread that the Velossa Tech (sp?) folks did a good bit of aggressive testing around the water question and couldn’t get more than a couple drops anywhere near the filter.

I'm certain with enough time, constant spray, and a few hard pulls I can get water past the filter media. But I agree that it would be a near perfect storm of variables to get enough into the engine to nuke it. The filter would have to get water logged, then start passing water through. That would take effort, though not out of the realm of what's possible. Enter the risk assessment.

The point of the snorkels is that they have less restriction/resistance, so there's almost no bend before the air gets into the air box. That's what differentiates them from the stock intake, the reason to install the snorkels in the first place. They're basically a wide mouth of air going into the box. Anything in the air (water, dust, birds) is making it to the box in some higher quantity than with the stock intake apparatus.

 

[stoopid]

I believe that the surface area of the airbox is what prevents water from infiltrating. It has to contend with gravity and a huge (compared to the size of the inlet and outlet) area.

You would have to accelerate really hard to overcome that effect, so casual use in the rain wouldn't likely create enough pressure to suck many (any?) water droplets into the filter. It's only when WOT that I would be at all worried. It's a Stinger, so that's bound to happen though, even in the rain (and maybe because of the rain... weeeeeee!!!!).

 

[Stingin' Away]

Getting ready to do a bunch of upgrades at the end of the month, and after spending hours reading here, I can’t tell if intakes actually make any difference beyond improving the sound.

I am going to do scoops, exhaust, sway bars, brakes and a couple minor exterior items. I might do a piggyback tune. Likely, in fact.

I can’t find any evidence intakes change anything but the sound. In fact, there seems to be a consensus that aftermarket intakes reduce low-end grunt, which, living in a city, is where I have the most fun.

But maybe that equation changes if I do get the JB4? If I don’t do intakes, I will upgrade to AEM dry filters using the factory boxes.

Regardless, I’d rather put the $400 for intakes into better brakes or a higher quality exhaust if the only thing intakes change is to hear the blow off noises (which are very cool, don’t get me wrong).

Save your money and get drop in panels from K&N or AEM while doing the snorkels. CAI are debated over and over and it comes down to looks and sound. Panels will run you $100 compared to $400 and 2 hours of your life to install. Panels take 5 minutes.

I had a G35 in my past life and I installed solid intake "tubes" that weren't ribbed to increase sound and help with airflow. I don't think I have seen this part yet for the Stinger but I could be wrong.

If you do a piggyback, as in JB4, make sure to close the gap on your current plugs or, better yet, install the HKS plugs keeping the gap under .026.

 

[Dodger Blue]

Water has no direction though - its not solid like debris so the grill adds little benefit (less than 2 ounces of water in a cylinder can hydrolock an engine). That said I was under the impression there were no turns in the snorkel leading me to making the statement. If there are similar bends then it may be okay, but again like anything there is an inherent risk.

I only bring this up as my mechanic also builds race cars. When I asked him his opinion this was his response.

Yeah I feel you but I just don't see how you even get two ounces of water into the engine bay under normal conditions, let alone past the filters and into the engine. These intakes aren't sucking puddles, they're mounted as high in the engine bay as you can get. I had an Altima with a CAI where that was a real concern, because the intake was sucking air from under the car instead of behind the radiator. Even then, I drove through pretty deep standing water (3-4") numerous times and never had a problem. Water just doesn't permeate through these cone filters that easily. If that was the case you'd have people hydrolocking at the car wash lol

 

[Travis Wills]

Are your only mods the snorkels and filters? If so, that's a very impressive time.

My only performance mods at the moment are the Velossa Tech Snorkels and the AEM drop in panel filters with the JB4 on the default map 2.

I ran my best 1/4 mile time a couple of days ago. It was 12.12 @116+ mph on 100% 93 Octane pump gas. No meth, no Ethanol, no Octane boosters. Stock exhaust and stock intake air box.

As far as getting water into the engine through the snorkels and stock air box? It won’t happen. Even if you could do it that water would get caught in the filter. Even if it didn’t do that it is going to boil when it hits the turbocharger. Even if it didn’t do that it is going to boil when it gets compressed in the cylinder.

Honestly, getting water in intake system would probably just cool the air and make it produce slightly more power. Plenty of manufacturers have injected water into the intake systems straight from the factory.

Wash your car with an open intake and check to see if any water actually gets in that engine bay. I bet it does. However, even with an open air intake getting water in there won’t be a major concern.

All of these intake systems can work well under the right conditions and they are all fairly reliable and resistant to the elements.

The only air intake system that is poor for performance is the 100% stock intake system and that is because of the stock snorkel. The inlet port in the stock snorkel sits right up under the shroud. That makes the air inlet a thin slit and it just isn’t sufficient for airflow with a modified tune. Take the stock snorkel out of the equation and pretty much any of the air intake solutions will work better.

 

[CeeDaRula]

The factory boxes are a known restriction. With a turbo car you gain power by taking more air in and getting more air out. You can do it yourself with a 4 inch piece of pipe and a cone filter.

wow, that answer enlightens me on your previous reply's.

 

[MacGyver]

Has anyone seen a thread or heard of anyone having water ingress issues with snorkels. I certainly have not. I live in Florida. I've been in torrential downpours and would not worry about it in the least. If it's raining hard enough to be worried about water getting in there it's likely you shouldn't even be driving anyway (idiots in Florida driving with hazards in in the rain case in point )

 

[General_Vodka]

Lol I have intakes, snorkels and a vented hood. Drove fine in the rain and in cash washes. Just don’t try and drive though a lake.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Lol I have intakes, snorkels and a vented hood. Drove fine in the rain and in cash washes. Just don’t try and drive though a lake.

That's like driving around with no hood or front bumper!

 

[General_Vodka]

That's like driving around with no hood or front bumper!

I actually drove without a front bumper for a bit while it was getting painted. Just not in the rain.