Stinger GT drive train advantages of RWD w/LSD (Limited Slip Differential) vs. AWD w/Torque vectoring vs. GTS setup

[YeaStung]

Hey everybody,
Sorry if there is a post that I already missed, but I was intrested in gaining better understanding of these systems and their advantages or disadvantages. My car is all wheel drive with torque vectoring(so no need for LSD) and I love how it works - I used to have a Q50 all wheel drive and it did not work the same way. In Sport mode with the nannies off, I am able to get some quick drift action momentarily, then, wheels spinning or not, it will jettison to wherever it's being steered to go!
I would like to hear about your Stinger experiences and preferences, and why you have those preferences. So I look forward to hearing from you guys and gals, have a great day!

 

[Luc343]

The lsd rwd car is about 200 pounds lighter and loses less HP because it only has 1 diff to go through. It makes it a bit faster. The awd has 3 diffs to go through. I think it's 4.6 secs 0-100 kmh for the rwd car.

Rwd does have less grip then the awd. Some people argue the awd makes it faster because it can put more power to the road. The awd will handle better then the rwd due to double the grip. that should be better around a race track.

The other disadvantage of rwd is the back-end feels loose under full throttle on a wrd car. Almost like the wheels are spining.

I'm old school and chose the rwd so I could have a bit of fun with the car.

 

[YeaStung]

Cool deal. I'm kind old (52) school too and have always pursued RWD vehicles. I regretted buying awd on my Q50,even though I had it dyno tuned and it was smoking quick. The Q50 awd prevented me from getting in trouble/killing myself, but works differently, and not like a GTR/did not use torque vectoring. It was hard to find new RWD Stingers in my area. I only found one, and it was black( a no go for me) and a GT. I opted for a GT1 awd Pantera metal. Glad for that as the advantage the shifter gives over a GT2 electronic shifter. Non GT2 cars can slide from D to the left and lock in manual shift mode. Also, when I was working on my car I could shift it into neutral without having to start it.
The way torque vectoring allows limited slip and then all grip, especially in Sport mode is all grins and giggles for me.
Torque therapy...

 

[YeaStung]

Cool deal. I'm kind old (52) school too and have always pursued RWD vehicles. I regretted buying awd on my Q50,even though I had it dyno tuned and it was smoking quick. The Q50 awd prevented me from getting in trouble/killing myself, but works differently, and not like a GTR/did not use torque vectoring. It was hard to find new RWD Stingers in my area. I only found one, and it was black( a no go for me) and a GT. I opted for a GT1 awd Pantera metal. Glad for that as the advantage the shifter gives over a GT2 electronic shifter. Non GT2 cars can slide from D to the left and lock in manual shift mode. Also, when I was working on my car I could shift it into neutral without having to start it.
The way torque vectoring allows limited slip and then all grip, especially in Sport mode is all grins and giggles for me.
Torque therapy...

And I forgot to mention that I read that awd GT cars were tuned for higher boost, like 1-2 psi, to offset the weight difference, but have no way to verify that.

 

[Luc343]

And I forgot to mention that I read that awd GT cars were tuned for higher boost, like 1-2 psi, to offset the weight difference, but have no way to verify that.

That's the first time I have heard of 1-2 psi extra boost in the awd model. Where did you see that?

I saw a number of dyno runs online and the stock awd always resulted in less rwhp.

I think Kia quote the same numbers for all 3.3tt models as it easier that way.

 

[YeaStung]

Sorry, I do not recall specifically but I believe I read about awd cars having extra boost somewhere on this forum... my experience of awd Q50 on an awd dynojet was it showed much lower whp numbers than the performance it had... I guess the comments about dyno numbers being rather subjective seem to be true for me...

 

[turboAWD]

That's the first time I have heard of 1-2 psi extra boost in the awd model. Where did you see that?

I saw a number of dyno runs online and the stock awd always resulted in less rwhp.

I think Kia quote the same numbers for all 3.3tt models as it easier that way.

It's been reported in a couple of places. AWD has more drivetrain losses, so dynos will show less whp. But, at least some versions had a bit more boost to compensate for being slower than the RWD model.

 

[Luc343]

It's been reported in a couple of places. AWD has more drivetrain losses, so dynos will show less whp. But, at least some versions had a bit more boost to compensate for being slower than the RWD model.

I'm a bit confused, shouldn't more boost up the HP output of the engine, so that the HP at the wheels would be about the same between both the awd and rwd models?

Both the dyno run and 0 to 100 km videos I have seen don't support that, but its fine if there is more boost. That would give you the best of both world's.

 

[turboAWD]

I'm a bit confused, shouldn't more boost up the HP output of the engine, so that the HP at the wheels would be about the same between both the awd and rwd models?

Both the dyno run and 0 to 100 km videos I have seen don't support that, but its fine if there is more boost. That would give you the best of both world's.

Well, if the difference is say 10% (RWD) and 20% (AWD), then an extra 10% loss is something like 37 hp - maybe they upped boost enough to add back 20 or something.. AND, AWD is heavier, so even if WHP is the same, AWD would still be slower. Plus, AWD MIGHT have a different axle ratio - they have a different steering ratio, IIRC.

I know AWD is the slower version - but being able to drive it in all conditions (rain, rough roads, etc), plus avoiding fishtailing is worth it to me. YMMV.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Well, if the difference is say 10% (RWD) and 20% (AWD), then an extra 10% loss is something like 37 hp - maybe they upped boost enough to add back 20 or something.. AND, AWD is heavier, so even if WHP is the same, AWD would still be slower. Plus, AWD MIGHT have a different axle ratio - they have a different steering ratio, IIRC.

I know AWD is the slower version - but being able to drive it in all conditions (rain, rough roads, etc), plus avoiding fishtailing is worth it to me. YMMV.

JB4, Lap3, Tork... Problem solved. Now you can put the big power down.

 

[turboAWD]

JB4, Lap3, Tork... Problem solved. Now you can put the big power down.

I know. Just because I don't list my mods, doesn't mean I don't have any

 

[Oryan]

Well, if the difference is say 10% (RWD) and 20% (AWD), then an extra 10% loss is something like 37 hp - maybe they upped boost enough to add back 20 or something.. AND, AWD is heavier, so even if WHP is the same, AWD would still be slower. Plus, AWD MIGHT have a different axle ratio - they have a different steering ratio, IIRC.

I know AWD is the slower version - but being able to drive it in all conditions (rain, rough roads, etc), plus avoiding fishtailing is worth it to me. YMMV.

You're not fishtailing a RWD car with good tires. Especially with a limited slip. Plus, if the car does step out it will correct itself easily and is likely intentional anyway. Tires will determine how your grip will be in rain or other weather as much, if not more, than what wheels are being driven.

 

[turboAWD]

You're not fishtailing a RWD car with good tires. Especially with a limited slip. Plus, if the car does step out it will correct itself easily and is likely intentional anyway. Tires will determine how your grip will be in rain or other weather as much, if not more, than what wheels are being driven.

Look at ZyroXZ2 or similar, who lost his car due to driving it too hard on city streets. Or that Hellcat that was doing 50-60+ on the freeway and lost it due to too much throttle. Heck, I've done a partial fishtail in my AWD when getting on it in 1st pulling out onto a street - and I have 285 Pilot 4s on the back (18" too, so more sidewall)..

 

[CoconutRob]

Well, if the difference is say 10% (RWD) and 20% (AWD), then an extra 10% loss is something like 37 hp - maybe they upped boost enough to add back 20 or something.. AND, AWD is heavier, so even if WHP is the same, AWD would still be slower. Plus, AWD MIGHT have a different axle ratio - they have a different steering ratio, IIRC.

I know AWD is the slower version - but being able to drive it in all conditions (rain, rough roads, etc), plus avoiding fishtailing is worth it to me. YMMV.

Awd still beats challenger's charger's and mustang's and I am ok with that.

 

[YeaStung]

I'm a bit confused, shouldn't more boost up the HP output of the engine, so that the HP at the wheels would be about the same between both the awd and rwd models?

Both the dyno run and 0 to 100 km videos I have seen don't support that, but its fine if there is more boost. That would give you the best of both world's.

I think I have been guilty of throwing this thread off original subject/topic... I did get one initial helpful reply that explained a bit, but still waiting to understand the differences of each, especially both the RWD and AWD on the GTS models..
Anyone that can help explain a bit more?
Thanks

 

[Spaceme17]

I think I have been guilty of throwing this thread off original subject/topic... I did get one initial helpful reply that explained a bit, but still waiting to understand the differences of each, especially both the RWD and AWD on the GTS models..
Anyone that can help explain a bit more?
Thanks

Here is the way I see it:

AWD vs RWD

1. AWD 2X the grip as RWD
2. AWD can adjust on the fly and send grip to wheels that need it
3. AWD has torque vectoring which improves handling
4. AWD better grip in snow or slick conditions
5. AWD is not necessarily as fun/can’t make the backend step out like on RWD
6. AWD heavier than RWD because of extra diffs and shafts of AWD
7. RWD potentially faster than AWD because it’s lighter.
8. RWD has LSD in the rear which helps acceleration; AWD is dependent on computer control.
9. RWD and AWD can “feel” different which may or may not be a negative. But the Stinger is the least AWD feeling car I have driven.
10. RWD potentially better gas mileage because of less weight and less drive train losses.

 

[Slip_Angle]

That's a great list. I would add that rwd is faster stock but likely awd is quicker with mods. Also, some awd versions have an lsd

 

[YeaStung]

Here is the way I see it:

AWD vs RWD

1. AWD 2X the grip as RWD
2. AWD can adjust on the fly and send grip to wheels that need it
3. AWD has torque vectoring which improves handling
4. AWD better grip in snow or slick conditions
5. AWD is not necessarily as fun/can’t make the backend step out like on RWD
6. AWD heavier than RWD because of extra diffs and shafts of AWD
7. RWD potentially faster than AWD because it’s lighter.
8. RWD has LSD (Limited Slip Differential) in the rear which helps acceleration; AWD is dependent on computer control.
9. RWD and AWD can “feel” different which may or may not be a negative. But the Stinger is the least AWD feeling car I have driven.
10. RWD potentially better gas mileage because of less weight and less drive train losses.

Hey,
Thanks for this perspective, and I agree that my AWD Stinger comes close to feeling RWD when in sport mode. Now I am still hoping to hear from some folks that have RWD/AWD GTS trim models!

 

[vipeboy2000]

Hey,
Thanks for this perspective, and I agree that my AWD Stinger comes close to feeling RWD when in sport mode. Now I am still hoping to hear from some folks that have RWD/AWD GTS trim models!

I really really only wanted the rwd stinger as I am coming from 2 e39 5 series and wanted something rwd with an lsd since that was the one thing the bmw's really lacked.
However, we went with the indigo edition as it has the same d-awd with lsd as the gts. When it is in sport mode, it is hard to tell that it is awd especially with the lsd, as if you get on it mid corner the back end comes out very predictably and is easy to manipulate thanks to the limited slip.

I really enjoy the awd now as even in the wet, i feel much more confident in pulling out of intersections etc, when previously, trying to turn in the wet and accelerate meant power being cut by esc possibly causing a dangerous situation..

 

[YeaStung]

I really really only wanted the rwd stinger as I am coming from 2 e39 5 series and wanted something rwd with an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) since that was the one thing the bmw's really lacked.
However, we went with the indigo edition as it has the same d-awd with LSD (Limited Slip Differential) as the gts. When it is in sport mode, it is hard to tell that it is awd especially with the LSD (Limited Slip Differential), as if you get on it mid corner the back end comes out very predictably and is easy to manipulate thanks to the limited slip.

I really enjoy the awd now as even in the wet, i feel much more confident in pulling out of intersections etc, when previously, trying to turn in the wet and accelerate meant power being cut by esc possibly causing a dangerous situation..

Does your car use awd torque vectoring too, or is the LSD replacing it?