Why no LSD on the AWD?

[pkarandi]

I was totally set on getting a Genesis G70 3.3t Sport. Then I took my kids to a dealer and had them sit in the back seat, and they were not having it! Just too darn small... which led me to check out the Stinger GT2 at the nearest Kia dealer. They fit in my 2007 Acura TL (Type-S 6MT) just fine, and the Stinger back seat (and overall length) are about the same, which is a great thing.

So I was all set to get serious about the Stinger, and then saw a Throttle House review on Youtube where he mentioned that it didn't have an LSD on the AWD version, but it does have it on the RWD version.

I like spirited driving, but I'm not a serious track-day guy or anything like that, and I've had friends convince me that an LSD is important in a sports sedan. My 2007 Acura TL has one, and the G70 AWD (3.3t) has one. So why remove it on the GT AWD? Is there some kind of technical reason to remove it? I wouldn't think it was necessary to reduce cost? Does an AWD drivetrain benefit less from an LSD or something? I'm just trying to understand the rationale, and whether I should even care.

 

[twig2121]

Most likely answer is either cost savings or product differentiation (G70 vs Stinger). They do weigh more, say 5-10lbs. I too would have liked to see a LSD in the AWD stinger, but truth is you won't notice it in an AWD road car unless you really enjoy loose terrain (snow, dirt, mud, etc) - or burn rubber doing extended 4-wheel drifting. Especially if you live in a metro area as yourself. RWD definitely benefits from LSD, but you shouldn't see any normal driving traction issues with AWD, the electronic helpers and good tires.

I like loose terrain driving, but I've got a WRX that has a rear LSD. Subaru's a similar example, and they are one of the titans of AWD: They put rear LSDs in WRXs up until mid 2000s when they realized most folks don't leave pavement so now you only get a rear (and front) LSD on the WRX STI which stays true to rally history, but I fear only a small percentage will actually make use of those LSDs.

 

[pkarandi]

...but truth is you won't notice it in an AWD road car unless you really enjoy loose terrain (snow, dirt, mud, etc) - or burn rubber doing extended 4-wheel drifting. Especially if you live in a metro area as yourself. RWD definitely benefits from LSD (Limited Slip Differential), but you shouldn't see any normal driving traction issues with AWD, the electronic helpers and good tires.

Thanks very much for the explanation! I suspected it was something I shouldn't put too much stock in. I definitely don't do those things you mentioned (loose terrain, drifting) so it's probably a non-issue for me. It does seem odd to remove a sought-after performance option on the highest trim-level of a sport sedan, even if it mostly only matters on paper.

 

[eflyguy]

It comes down to the electronic traction control and ability to drive all four wheels making it unnecessary for most drivers in most conditions. It's not a track car, it's designed for touring.

 

[MisterMac]

I was totally set on getting a Genesis G70 3.3t Sport. Then I took my kids to a dealer and had them sit in the back seat, and they were not having it! Just too darn small... which led me to check out the Stinger GT2 at the nearest Kia dealer. They fit in my 2007 Acura TL (Type-S 6MT) just fine, and the Stinger back seat (and overall length) are about the same, which is a great thing.

So I was all set to get serious about the Stinger, and then saw a Throttle House review on Youtube where he mentioned that it didn't have an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) on the AWD version, but it does have it on the RWD version.

I like spirited driving, but I'm not a serious track-day guy or anything like that, and I've had friends convince me that an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) is important in a sports sedan. My 2007 Acura TL has one, and the G70 AWD (3.3t) has one. So why remove it on the GT AWD? Is there some kind of technical reason to remove it? I wouldn't think it was necessary to reduce cost? Does an AWD drivetrain benefit less from an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) or something? I'm just trying to understand the rationale, and whether I should even care.

In over 16,000 miles in my GT2 AWD, I can't imagine wanting it to have an LSD. However, take one out for a long test drive. Do everything you want to in it and see how it feels.

 

[Marc Collins]

I was totally set on getting a Genesis G70 3.3t Sport. Then I took my kids to a dealer and had them sit in the back seat, and they were not having it! Just too darn small... which led me to check out the Stinger GT2 at the nearest Kia dealer. They fit in my 2007 Acura TL (Type-S 6MT) just fine, and the Stinger back seat (and overall length) are about the same, which is a great thing.

So I was all set to get serious about the Stinger, and then saw a Throttle House review on Youtube where he mentioned that it didn't have an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) on the AWD version, but it does have it on the RWD version.

I like spirited driving, but I'm not a serious track-day guy or anything like that, and I've had friends convince me that an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) is important in a sports sedan. My 2007 Acura TL has one, and the G70 AWD (3.3t) has one. So why remove it on the GT AWD? Is there some kind of technical reason to remove it? I wouldn't think it was necessary to reduce cost? Does an AWD drivetrain benefit less from an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) or something? I'm just trying to understand the rationale, and whether I should even care.

Some of us have been complaining about this lack of availability (at least as an option) since before the car even hit the market. It's a major issue for me. The electronic nanny-based system is a far cry from a real LSD.

 

[pkarandi]

Yeah - I need to take it out for a test drive and see what I think. I doubt it will matter too much to me. From a handling perspective, minimal body roll always ranks high on my list. I installed a rear sway bar on my current TL years ago, and will probably do the same on the Stinger if I end up getting one.

But I gotta say, sometimes when you are trying to hang with the big dogs (i.e. the Europeans), having stats on paper, even if it's not necessary from a practical standpoint, can make a big difference. I imagine that's why they went with the Brembos, launch control, etc. Removing the LSD from the highest cost trim (GT2 AWD) seems like an odd decision.

 

[Marc Collins]

Yeah - I need to take it out for a test drive and see what I think. I doubt it will matter too much to me. From a handling perspective, minimal body roll always ranks high on my list. I installed a rear sway bar on my current TL years ago, and will probably do the same on the Stinger if I end up getting one.

But I gotta say, sometimes when you are trying to hang with the big dogs (i.e. the Europeans), having stats on paper, even if it's not necessary from a practical standpoint, can make a big difference. I imagine that's why they went with the Brembos, launch control, etc. Removing the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) from the highest cost trim (GT2 AWD) seems like an odd decision.

I would have been fine with an extra-cost option. I accept many wouldn't care or couldn't tell the difference, but when the part is already in the "corporate bin" and available on other models/trim levels, there is no excuse.

 

[turboAWD]

Anyone try to put the LSD from the G70 into an AWD Stinger? Someone SHOULD try.

My '05 Legacy GT wagon is AWD. It has a "cheap" rear LSD (springs / plates) that is well worn by now (140K miles) and probably isn't doing much anymore. Plus, the LGT doesn't have the electronic braking diff feature - which is good and bad: it doesn't wear out the rear brake pads. I've launched my (modified) LGT and never spun tires (Pilot AS3 and Sport), even in the wet, except for the OEM tires, which were like bars of soap.

This time around, I can spec a better car, and, I agree - I'd pay $1k more for a real LSD in the AWD Stinger. I want AWD because, while RWD is "faster" on super-great roads and the track, even if I do get to the track in the end, I mostly drive on (*@&#$ roads. I'll take a 0.2 second hit in the 1/4 (something I've never done) and a slight penalty in auto-x (I'm a newb there) or the track in order to be able to launch and have fun daily..

 

[jmf_tracy]

I was super bummed when i realized that my GT2 AWD did not have the LSD.
KIAs sales team, brochure, etc. did not make this clear at all.
cheap bastards.

 

[pkarandi]

KIAs sales team, brochure, etc. did not make this clear at all.
cheap bastards.

Yes - agreed. I read "Limited Slip Differential" in some of the specs, and just assumed the AWD GT2 trim, considering it's the highest cost trim, would include it. I then watched the Throttle House review on the AWD GT2 where he explicitly states this. I was thinking, "no way, that must be a mistake." Then, I went to the Kia build page and noticed the "*" next to the LSD feature. Look down at the "*" and it states "RWD only." I was like WTF?!?!?!

 

[HTmode]

That is one of the reason why I chose the RWD over the AWD. Even though I wanted the AWD just in case I go to snow or if it rains.

 

[eflyguy]

Love to see some video of your track experiences showing the benefits of LSD.

 

[turboAWD]

That is one of the reason why I chose the RWD over the AWD. Even though I wanted the AWD just in case I go to snow or if it rains.

I'm leaning the other way - AWD isn't something you can add on later. The Infiniti Q50 (even the Red Sport) is the same as the Stinger AWD - no rear LSD (even though the G37 had it!), just the e-lsd - for both RWD and AWD. Now, 3-4 years later, there are two different aftermarket options (both just came out recently) for adding a real LSD to RWD or AWD. I figure eventually, someone might do the same for the Stinger, especially since it's already available in some trims. Until such time, for most of *MY* uses, AWD > RWD + LSD. YMMV.

 

[jmf_tracy]

Kia is working on the new dynamic AWD that will include the LSD and be able to convert to RWD at a touch of the button.
Sharper Stinger: Testing Kia's upcoming performance-tuned AWD

 

[turboAWD]

Thanks JMF - saw that when it was announced. I think it's a pipe dream to get that on a Stinger. MAYBE on a super-expensive G70 special model. Which, as others mentioned, is too small to fit the family.

I like that you can go 20/80 (F/R) in sport mode on AWD.. My LGT starts at 45/55, IIRC, and adjusts as necessary..

 

[Stephen Brubaker]

One site I looked at the specs on an AWD model said it comes with a center LSD. I can't find that info on the KIA site so was wandering if that is true.

 

[pkarandi]

I FINALLY took a GT2 AWD for a test drive yesterday and absolutely loved it. My concern over the lack of an LSD was definitely unnecessary. It drove perfectly for me, just like the G70, but was perfectly comfortable for my daughters in the back seat too, UNLIKE the G70. (Actually, it was funny - and totally gratifying - to hear my 12 yr old daughter say after the test drive, "Daddy, I'm with you on Team Stinger now").

Now, I just have to try to stick with my financial plans of not buying a new car until 2020. My goal was to wait until February 2020, but I don't know if I'll have the willpower to hold off once the 2020 models are available at dealers in the fall. It's funny because the 2020 MY brings the LSD to the GTS trim, which I would be cool with, if not for the orange color! I'm probably gonna stick with the GT2 AWD in hi-chroma red.

 

[MerlintheMad]

It's funny because the 2020 MY brings the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) (Limited Slip Differential) to the GTS trim, which I would be cool with, if not for the orange color!

There are only 800 of them coming. And they appear to be GT trim with some added features. Not GT2.

 

[pkarandi]

There are only 800 of them coming. And they appear to be GT trim with some added features. Not GT2.

Ahh, yes - good point. I forgot that the GTS was actually a lower trim than the GT2, so even if they did offer other colors, I would still opt for the GT2. I really want all those tech goodies like surround-view camera and adaptive cruise control.