Secret Engine Killer -LSPI- Low Speed Pre-Ignition

robz32

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Hey guys, here is a great series of videos explaining why Low speed pre-ignition is called "The Silent GDI engine Killer"

The videos explain causes, prevention, and mitigation procedures in order to keep your GDI engines running as best as possible.

From the videos you will see why GDI engines require and benefit from:
  • Shorter oil change intervals than regular port injection engines (every 3k miles at least).
  • Low detergent content engine oil.
  • Using good quality fuel (top tier gas).
  • High octane fuel.
  • Fuel injector cleaner additives.
  • Higher viscosity oil when using E85.






Rob
 
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For those who have work deadlines, any quick summary, as to:
-which oil/weight is good? Which fuel injector cleaner?

For my '05 LGT (turbo, lots of oil consumption) I found that Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 was way better (survived longer) than Mobil I. Mobil I is a known not-good oil for subaru turbos. I throw in some Chevron cleaner every 6-12 months when I remember to buy it at Coscto..
 
What fuel injector cleaner do you guys recommend?
 
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This is included in the Stinger's 12-15K miles engine check, am I right about that?
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
I use the BMW petrol fuel additive, about every 5k. Believe it to be the same as Techron 5000 in the concentrate version, but I am not sure where to get that in the Australia... please chime in if you do?
 
The immediate thing that jumped out at me is that the spokesperson has a background in motorsports (NASCAR specifically). The reason that this is important is that most of his views related to engine oil center around either his experience with NASCAR engine building and analysis and his desire to sell his product. What may be a problem in a NASCAR engine running 8500rpm for 4-5 hours straight, may not be a problem for a consumer engine.

I think that he exaggerates the oil's ability to influence engine knock. I think he exaggerates how much difference there is between port injected engines and DI engines with respect to oil. I think that he exaggerates the extent to which oil and gas mix during the combustion process in a normal and well functioning engine. I think he exaggerates the "soot" point in comparing DI to PI engines. Lastly, I think he exaggerates all of these points to make them seem like problems. Not surprisingly, his product is the solution to these problems.

Most of the "soot" you see in a gasoline car simply comes from a rich running engine. The manufacture's choose to run rich because it runs cooler (less knock) and it is safer than running lean or hot. It has little to do with the fuel injection method.

Fuel dilution (of engine oil) happens in EVERY engine, not just DI engines. It is hardly a new problem and most modern motor oils (Castrol, Pennzoil, Mobil, Valvolene, etc.) have additives to combat fuel dilution. The most common cause is "blow-by" due to improperly seated or worn piston rings. There are other causes but that is the main one. Some oils do a better job of tolerating fuel dilution and some engines don't dilute as much by design. DI engines are less prone to fuel dilution because of how and when the fuel is injected into the cylinder. The salesperson, I mean spokesperson, failed to mention this. If you are running E85, a shorter change interval makes more sense than changing the viscosity when considering normal levels of fuel dilution.

The spokesperson also made no mention of the differences between DI and FI when speaking of fuel atomizing. The reason DI engines have a shorter fuel atomizing time is because most DI fuel systems operate at MUCH higher pressures (>2000psi) with finer nozzles to atomize the fuel. It simply requires less time to atomize fuel in a DI engine.

I have no idea why the spokesperson mentions the octane of engine oil. If you are burning enough oil during the combustion process that it affects your octane level significantly, then you have a bigger engine problem. The levels of fuel dilution and engine oil in the combustion process he talks about would be indicative of a highly worn engine, not one that passes a leak-down test.

Lastly, strongly consider the source when someone tells you that you have a problem. If it is the person selling the solution, be weary and look a little deeper into their claims.
 
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The immediate thing that jumped out at me is that the spokesperson has a background in motorsports (NASCAR specifically). The reason that this is important is that most of his views related to engine oil center around either his experience with NASCAR engine building and analysis and his desire to sell his product. What may be a problem in a NASCAR engine running 8500rpm for 4-5 hours straight, may not be a problem for a consumer engine.

I think that he exaggerates the oil's ability to influence engine knock. I think he exaggerates how much difference there is between port injected engines and DI engines with respect to oil. I think that he exaggerates the extent to which oil and gas mix during the combustion process in a normal and well functioning engine. I think he exaggerates the "soot" point in comparing DI to PI engines. Lastly, I think he exaggerates all of these points to make them seem like problems. Not surprisingly, his product is the solution to these problems.

Most of the "soot" you seen in a gasoline car simply comes from a rich running engine. The manufacture's choose to run rich because it runs cooler (less knock) and it is safer than running lean or hot. It has little to do with the fuel injection method.

Fuel dilution (of engine oil) happens in EVERY engine, not just DI engines. It is hardly a new problem and most modern motor oils (Castrol, Pennzoil, Mobil, Valvolene, etc.) have additives to combat fuel dilution. The most common cause is "blow-by" due to improperly seated or worn piston rings. There are other causes but that is the main one. Some oils do a better job of tolerating fuel dilution and some engines don't dilute as much by design. DI engines are less prone to fuel dilution because of how and when the fuel is injected into the cylinder. The salesperson, I mean spokesperson, failed to mention this. If you are running E85, a shorter change interval makes more sense than changing the viscosity when considering normal levels of fuel dilution.

The spokesperson also made no mention of the differences between DI and FI when speaking of fuel atomizing. The reason DI engines have a shorter fuel atomizing time is because most DI fuel systems operate at MUCH higher pressures (<2000psi) with finer nozzles to atomize the fuel. It simply requires less time to atomize fuel in a DI engine.

I have no idea why the spokesperson mentions the octane of engine oil. If you are burning enough oil during the combustion process that it affects your octane level significantly, then you have a bigger engine problem. The levels of fuel dilution and engine oil in the combustion process he talks about would be indicative of a highly worn engine, not one that passes a leak-down test.

Lastly, strongly consider the source when someone tells you that you have a problem. If it is the person selling the solution, be weary and look a little deeper into their claims.

At this point I have not watched the videos or read your whole story but I will give you a winner badge just for taking your time to watch all the videos and write such a long response. I don’t know if the spoke person exaggerated but it is safe say that you have exxagated on the spoke person lol.

I am a simple guy.... just use premium gas, do your oil changes in time of what is reccomend, use high quality full synthetic oil, and add your fuel additive and sea foam every 10-15k. Follow these simple steps and you should be golden.
 
Anything that comes out of Oak Ridge National Labs is no joke. That place is home to some of the best scientists and engineers in the world.
 
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From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
I watched the LSPI video on Engineering Explained. I noticed there was no mention of octane. Since higher octane is used to avoid knock, and so many turbo engines these days as pushing high boost at low RPM, it makes me wonder if "regular" fuel is maybe not enough in the LSPI instances, if running premium is one of the real solutions to help avoid this.
 
Seems to me the Mobil 1 5W-30 oil has all the credentials including SN plus.
That with the Costco top tier fuel and my catch cans suits me fine.
I will use the seafoam in the fuel system and through the intake and maybe through the engine oil (just before an oil change is due at every 6,000 km) also. Worth a try. Currently at 28,000 km and no problems at all.
 
Seems to me the Mobil 1 5W-30 oil has all the credentials including SN plus.
That with the Costco top tier fuel and my catch cans suits me fine.
I will use the seafoam in the fuel system and through the intake and maybe through the engine oil (just before an oil change is due at every 6,000 km) also. Worth a try. Currently at 28,000 km and no problems at all.

You mentioned Sea Foam, Here you go!!!

 
Thanks Angel.
I saw your video and appreciate you being the Guinea pig for us.
 
Anything that comes out of Oak Ridge National Labs is no joke. That place is home to some of the best scientists and engineers in the world.
ORNL works with several scientists and companies around the world. While I do not question their scientific abilities at the labs, many of these partnering scientists and companies will tout some of their technologies "developed at ORNL." I worked for a company that won an innovation grant from ORNL to help develop a new technology. The grant money was used up before the technology matured and ORNL dropped the project and it subsequently stalled. However, that company still sells a product (that doesn't work) using the tag-line developed in conjunction with ORNL. Hopefully, that is not the case with these oils. I haven't researched them enough to know.

I do believe in a good oil analysis but don't think it is necessary for everyone, only the serious modders. Trouble is, finding one that uses the best equipment. Make sure they do gas engines, do FTIR, have gas chromatography, and are ISO 17025:2005 certified. You will also need a great person interpreting the data (familiar with Stinger engine components). Kind of tough to find probably. If you do, it will cost $150-$200 bucks per analysis. Tribologik used to do them however I think most of their business is corporate/commercial now.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
ORNL itself and the companies it partners with were never good with finance or budgets. Alot of their projects never exit the proof of concept phase due to blowing the budget early. But when they do get it right and the projects mature it is always something amazing.
 
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I think my stinger (2.0L) is definitely suffering from this problem.

I hear a few knocks when I step on the gas (moderate to strong) at low speeds (30-50 mph) and lower rpm (usually below 2,000 rpm). This is usually followed by some hesitation and loss of boost/power. I'm not sure how to approach this problem as this does not happen all the time and emerges usually on longer drives (difficult to reproduce the issue at the dealership).

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any advice? Thank you in advance.
 
I think my stinger (2.0L) is definitely suffering from this problem.

I hear a few knocks when I step on the gas (moderate to strong) at low speeds (30-50 mph) and lower rpm (usually below 2,000 rpm). This is usually followed by some hesitation and loss of boost/power. I'm not sure how to approach this problem as this does not happen all the time and emerges usually on longer drives (difficult to reproduce the issue at the dealership).

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any advice? Thank you in advance.
Add some octane and see if it goes away.
 
I'm using 91 octane, and 2.0L can use 89 octane safely according to the manual. Wouldn't it be odd to spend extra money to add octane to remedy this issue?
Add it as a test so you know if that's the cause. Also possible you got some bad gas. If you can hear the knock that is severe.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
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