To the Panamera 4S...

[Rynil2000]

Thanks for playing along during a speed run up the highway. I was on my way home from the airport, but it was nice to have a friend as we drove through "Mexico".

He was originally chilling in the middle lane behind a family sedan, but I think rolling past him at triple digits (and for $60k less) rustled some jimmies. We had fun for a few miles - wot runs on a fairly open road. He exited early and I made it to my destination a few minutes later. Nice car.

 

[Deviate]

Answers my question to you on Instagram earlier...

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

You beat (in Mexico of course) a Panamera?!?!? Thought those things would down 911 numbers!!

 

[Rynil2000]

You beat (in Mexico of course) a Panamera?!?!? Thought those things would down 911 numbers!!

I didn't beat it per se, but he at least was willing to engage and keep up, which is always fun.

I'm sure you've seen the AMCI testing video between the 2018 Stinger, Panamera, and BMW 640i. It's a good look at just how well the Stinger is positioned among it's competition.

For reference the base Panamera models comes with a 2.9L twin turbo V6 making 325 hp. The 4S has the same 2.9L engine size, but output is bumped up to 443 hp somehow. IMO the 4S is a closer comparison, numbers wise, than the base, which is still only about double the cost of the Stinger.

The Panamera numbers get crazy at the line-up's top end; 620hp and 690hp for the Turbo S and the Turbo S E-Hybrid, respectively. But again, those are both nearly $200k each.

 

[vipeboy2000]

I didn't beat it per se, but he at least was willing to engage and keep up, which is always fun.

I'm sure you've seen the AMCI testing video between the 2018 Stinger, Panamera, and BMW 640i. It's a good look at just how well the Stinger is positioned among it's competition.

For reference the base Panamera models comes with a 2.9L twin turbo V6 making 325 hp. The 4S has the same 2.9L engine size, but output is bumped up to 443 hp somehow. IMO the 4S is a closer comparison, numbers wise, than the base, which is still only about double the cost of the Stinger.

The Panamera numbers get crazy at the line-up's top end; 620hp and 690hp for the Turbo S and the Turbo S E-Hybrid, respectively. But again, those are both nearly $200k each.

yea... those numbers for the "regular" 4s with the 2.9L v6 just somehow hits different... lol.. 440hp, 4,500lbs curb weight 0-60 in 3.6 seconds 1/4mile in 12.1 ...just goes to show the launch capabilities of the dual clutch in the porsches... you can really see this difference by looking at the 5-60 rolling starts car and driver does... 3.6 0-60 but 4.8 5-60.. whereas our stinger is 4.7 0-60 and 5.2 5-60..

 

[Rynil2000]

That's my one complaint about the Stinger drive train. I wish they would have developed or changed the transmission to a dual-clutch setup instead of the traditional automatic. It's a solid transmission, but I imagine Kia wanted to preserve some of the GT comfort aspect, rather than the feel of a DCT. Makes me think about the Veloster N owners complaining about stop and go traffic.

Despite being a big girl, the Porsche really does make up for it.

 

[vipeboy2000]

That's my one complaint about the Stinger drive train. I wish they would have developed or changed the transmission to a dual-clutch setup instead of the traditional automatic. It's a solid transmission, but I imagine Kia wanted to preserve some of the GT comfort aspect, rather than the feel of a DCT. Makes me think about the Veloster N owners complaining about stop and go traffic.

Despite being a big girl, the Porsche really does make up for it.

yea... or at least made sure to beef up the transmission/transfer case a little more to be able to launch at a higher boost reliably like the zf's in the bimmers in sport launch mode... but it's ok, i don't do the launch from a stop very often and prefer to roll onto the power once already going anyway.. I've replaced enough bushings and mounts in our bimmers from doing launches so i'd rather them last a bit more now...

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I didn't beat it per se, but he at least was willing to engage and keep up, which is always fun.

I'm sure you've seen the AMCI testing video between the 2018 Stinger, Panamera, and BMW 640i. It's a good look at just how well the Stinger is positioned among it's competition.

For reference the base Panamera models comes with a 2.9L twin turbo V6 making 325 hp. The 4S has the same 2.9L engine size, but output is bumped up to 443 hp somehow. IMO the 4S is a closer comparison, numbers wise, than the base, which is still only about double the cost of the Stinger.

The Panamera numbers get crazy at the line-up's top end; 620hp and 690hp for the Turbo S and the Turbo S E-Hybrid, respectively. But again, those are both nearly $200k each.

I could never understand the appeal of the Panamera; but then again I'm still young and ignorant.

I have trouble wrapping my head around why someone would purchase a base model Panamera when the performance and luxury is so bad compared to the competition 1/3 or 1/4 of the price...

 

[Rynil2000]

I could never understand the appeal of the Panamera; but then again I'm still young and ignorant.

I have trouble wrapping my head around why someone would purchase a base model Panamera when the performance and luxury is so bad compared to the competition 1/3 or 1/4 of the price...

The same reason someone would buy a MB A-class, a BMW 320i, or X1. It's a really low bar to get in "the club" and say that you drive a luxury brand.

Like others have said, the badge snobbery kept a lot of potential owners away from the Stinger.

 

[RM7]

yea... those numbers for the "regular" 4s with the 2.9L v6 just somehow hits different... lol.. 440hp, 4,500lbs curb weight 0-60 in 3.6 seconds 1/4mile in 12.1 ...just goes to show the launch capabilities of the dual clutch in the porsches... you can really see this difference by looking at the 5-60 rolling starts car and driver does... 3.6 0-60 but 4.8 5-60.. whereas our stinger is 4.7 0-60 and 5.2 5-60..

Because like most german cars, it's not SAE horsepower/tq. The Porsche numbers are likely what is at the wheels. This has been going on for a long time. BMWs 550m AWD was supposedly only 4--something, but it was dynoing such that it was 500+ at the crank, likely getting the advertised numbers at the wheels, but no where did they claim SAE horsepower. It kind of gives them a leg-up on auto comparison/shootouts, since reviewers *think* they are comparing cars with the same numbers. The other thing that does this is super-rich torque bands, but with the stinger torque curve, there isn't much difference here. There were when you compared something like a 300hp 335 to a 330hp nissan Z, the 335 making massively more torque at lower RPM.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Because like most german cars, it's not SAE horsepower/tq. The Porsche numbers are likely what is at the wheels. This has been going on for a long time. BMWs 550m AWD was supposedly only 4--something, but it was dynoing such that it was 500+ at the crank, likely getting the advertised numbers at the wheels, but no where did they claim SAE horsepower. It kind of gives them a leg-up on auto comparison/shootouts, since reviewers *think* they are comparing cars with the same numbers. The other thing that does this is super-rich torque bands, but with the stinger torque curve, there isn't much difference here. There were when you compared something like a 300hp 335 to a 330hp nissan Z, the 335 making massively more torque at lower RPM.

oh yea, absolutely. Before the stinger, there was no question our next vehicle was gonna be either a amg or bmw since we love our e39's so much... It is amusing to see "300" hp bmw's take on other vehicles with a pretty significant advertised hp leg up. Also recently the video showing the new m5 vs hellcat redeye charger drags where even on a roll, the lowly m5 comp with 617 still leaves the 797hp charger..

but the launch thing though.. watching vids on the panamera 4s launching, it's launch control does right around 4900 rpms...

 

[Kamauxx]

Because like most german cars, it's not SAE horsepower/tq. The Porsche numbers are likely what is at the wheels. This has been going on for a long time. BMWs 550m AWD was supposedly only 4--something, but it was dynoing such that it was 500+ at the crank, likely getting the advertised numbers at the wheels, but no where did they claim SAE horsepower. It kind of gives them a leg-up on auto comparison/shootouts, since reviewers *think* they are comparing cars with the same numbers. The other thing that does this is super-rich torque bands, but with the stinger torque curve, there isn't much difference here. There were when you compared something like a 300hp 335 to a 330hp nissan Z, the 335 making massively more torque at lower RPM.

Nah, that ain't it. They don't use wheel hp numbers, they just lie about what the car is making at the crank and chalk it up to their cars being better engineered than competitors. That's more a case for BMW and Mercedes, though. From what I've seen on Audis (Panamera 4S has Audi's 2.9tt from the RS5 and S6) their dyno results tend to be pretty close to manufacturer's claims.

Here's the whp numbers for a stock RS5. Audi claims it makes 444 crank, for what it's worth.





Here's another one on a mustang Dyno making Audi's claimed crank hp at the wheels with JB4+hi flow cats.





BMW and Mercedes performance cars defy logic because BMW and Mercedes are liars. Audi and Porsche performance cars defy logic because of their transmissions, AWD systems, and launch control.

 

[Kamauxx]

Oh btw, didn't we see a few years ago that Stingers were dynoing 15-25 HP over Kia's claims? You guys are the new BMW/Mercedes! Before you know it your signal lights are going to stop working and you'll all be parking sideways in parking spots.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Oh btw, didn't we see a few years ago that Stingers were dynoing 15-25 HP over Kia's claims? You guys are the new BMW/Mercedes! Before you know it your signal lights are going to stop working and you'll all be parking sideways in parking spots.

I'm ready as a former and technically still bmw owner ... Haha.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

The same reason someone would buy a MB A-class, a BMW 320i, or X1. It's a really low bar to get in "the club" and say that you drive a luxury brand.

Like others have said, the badge snobbery kept a lot of potential owners away from the Stinger.

true that!!

I could never care for emblems or badges or who drives what... If I had the money I would buy a C8 Z51 in a heartbeat... reading all the posts at Ferrarichat Forums and them saying "it's just a chevy" cracks me up!

 

[Maljey]

You beat (in Mexico of course) a Panamera?!?!? Thought those things would down 911 numbers!!

The cheapest Panamera comes with a N/A V6, and does 0 to 60 in the low 5s. So yeah a Stinger GT can definitely beat it.

 

[RM7]

The cheapest Panamera comes with a N/A V6, and does 0 to 60 in the low 5s. So yeah a Stinger GT can definitely beat it.

No

Technical Specs

Motor​

Design and cylinders	Twin-turbocharged V6

Porsche Panamera - Porsche USA

www.porsche.com

Maybe you are referring to 1st generation? Maybe that was N/A base?

 

[Maljey]

No

Porsche Panamera - Porsche USA

www.porsche.com

Maybe you are referring to 1st generation? Maybe that was N/A base?

Oops yeah was thinking of a prior gen.

 

[vipeboy2000]

No

Porsche Panamera - Porsche USA

www.porsche.com

Maybe you are referring to 1st generation? Maybe that was N/A base?

yea, the first gen base was n/a v6.. however, even the new turbo v6 base panameras only make 325 hp with a 5.2 ish second 0-60 time

 

[RM7]

yea, the first gen base was n/a v6.. however, even the new turbo v6 base panameras only make 325 hp with a 5.2 ish second 0-60 time

5.2 isn't bad for the weight of that car...at all. Plus the passing figure are probably decent still.