Should I get fuel injectors and would i need an upgraded intercooler or any other parts?

[Mr.stinger22]

I just found out how to read my jb4 logs and im running lean pushing 20psi. The boost isnt consistent throught the pull, they bog down just before I shift gears and then go back up with the rpm then repeat, and im pretty sure it’s because i dont have fuel injectors to even out the air mix with my intakes and snorkels. I wouldnt mind getting injectors but i dont know what i would need to support the injectors.

My current mods:
Injen intakes
Velossa tech snorkels
MBRP cat-back
Jb4

 

[ChaneRZ]

Post csv file, u running e85?

 

[Mr.stinger22]

Post csv file, u running e85?

No E85, ik not the brightest idea using map 6 but i attatched the csv.

 

[Rodtheviking]

What are your plugs gapped to?

 

[Mr.stinger22]

What are your plugs gapped to?

They are Denso 2-step, at 0.020

 

[oddball]

Why do you think it's lean?
The boost cut during shifts is part of the stock ECU tuning to help the transmission stay alive.
Also not sure what injectors you think you'd be buying?

 

[Mr.stinger22]

Why do you think it's lean?
The boost cut during shifts is part of the stock ECU tuning to help the transmission stay alive.
Also not sure what injectors you think you'd be buying?

I think it’s running lean because i have so much air being pushed into the engine and nothing has been done to the fuel being put into the engine, theres already 2 turbos pushing in a lot of air, then i have intakes that allow more air and the snorkles that are much less restrictive then the OEM ones. I was thinking about the charge pipe injectors by Fuel-It, which is why I was wondering if i should get an upgraded intercooler as well.

 

[rpoffen]

I think it’s running lean because i have so much air being pushed into the engine and nothing has been done to the fuel being put into the engine, theres already 2 turbos pushing in a lot of air, then i have intakes that allow more air and the snorkles that are much less restrictive then the OEM ones. I was thinking about the charge pipe injectors by Fuel-It, which is why I was wondering if i should get an upgraded intercooler as well.

The system knows all about how much air is going into the system, it is designed that way. There is a MAP sensor (actually 2 of them) that tell the ECU exactly how much air is going in and it will provide the right amount of fuel. In addition, the O2 sensors help the ECU fine tune the fuel delivery. Trust me, this is all well handled.
I run upwards of 21 PSI boost on map 4 with E30, and injectors aren't the problem. If anything, the HPFP is the limiting factor when running high E blends (but there are now aftermarket HPFP's that solve this, albeit pricey). I will run 22PSI boost with WMI, no problem.

 

[Mr.stinger22]

The system knows all about how much air is going into the system, it is designed that way. There is a MAP sensor (actually 2 of them) that tell the ECU exactly how much air is going in and it will provide the right amount of fuel. In addition, the O2 sensors help the ECU fine tune the fuel delivery. Trust me, this is all well handled.
I run upwards of 21 PSI boost on map 4 with E30, and injectors aren't the problem. If anything, the HPFP is the limiting factor when running high E blends (but there are now aftermarket HPFP's that solve this, albeit pricey). I will run 22PSI boost with WMI, no problem.

Ohh okay, i’ve heard about high pressure pumps but never took that into consideration. I haven’t tried E30 yet though and was looking into doing it because i have a few gas stations that provide it. I’ll look into an HPFP and see how that works and maybe WMI too.

 

[ChaneRZ]

Take advantage of E85 since you have plenty of stations around you. I think you need a flash tune with the upgraded HPFP to take advantage of it. Still waiting for the BMS one for the reviews. None at all yet…

 

[Mr.stinger22]

Why do you think it's lean?
The boost cut during shifts is part of the stock ECU tuning to help the transmission stay alive.
Also not sure what injectors you think you'd be buying?

Do you know why my throttle would shoot down as well, because i keep my foot down on it but on the log, it shows that the throttle goes from 99-52 and then back up to 99

 

[rpoffen]

Do you know why my throttle would shoot down as well, because i keep my foot down on it but on the log, it shows that the throttle goes from 99-52 and then back up to 99

If it does it when shifting gears (check the 'gear' column), then this is normal, it throttles back during gear shifts to avoid hitting the transmission hard.
I know in the old days, before throttle by wire, the transmission just banged into the next gear at full torque, but nowadays since the ECU controls the throttle based on many different sensors inputs and scenarios, it can throttle down before shifting into the next gear.
Post a csv of your log, we can take a look.

 

[oddball]

Note that the "gear" reading in JB4 is a best-guess (unless something has changed in the past year or so). But the shifts are pretty obvious in the logs.
If you also log "pedal" then you'll see that stays at 100%, or wherever your foot is.

The throttle cut is part of the shift strategy, just like cutting the boost. You could even say those two things are related.
I think Tork does something more interesting in his ECU tune, like keep the throttle blade open, but wiggle the wastegate during the shift to modulate the boost a touch. nowhere near as much as stock, though.

The AFR readings on the screenshot look OK - it'd be much better to see the actual data as 11:1 is very different than 12:1.

The whole point of running the JB4 is it fakes out BOTH MAP and TMAP sensors so you get higher manifold pressures than the stock ECU safety limits permit, but the ECU still understands how much air is in the chamber. The engine simply wouldn't run, or would immediately destroy itself, trying to run 18+ PSI of air while fueling for 14 PSI.

 

[rpoffen]

Note that the "gear" reading in JB4 is a best-guess (unless something has changed in the past year or so). But the shifts are pretty obvious in the logs.
If you also log "pedal" then you'll see that stays at 100%, or wherever your foot is.

The throttle cut is part of the shift strategy, just like cutting the boost. You could even say those two things are related.
I think Tork does something more interesting in his ECU tune, like keep the throttle blade open, but wiggle the wastegate during the shift to modulate the boost a touch. nowhere near as much as stock, though.

The AFR readings on the screenshot look OK - it'd be much better to see the actual data as 11:1 is very different than 12:1.

The whole point of running the JB4 is it fakes out BOTH MAP and TMAP sensors so you get higher manifold pressures than the stock ECU safety limits permit, but the ECU still understands how much air is in the chamber. The engine simply wouldn't run, or would immediately destroy itself, trying to run 18+ PSI of air while fueling for 14 PSI.

Doesn't it get most of the readings from the OBD II connection? The only thing that it can read directly are the MAP, TMAP, (O2) and wastegate DC (if these wires are connected).
If so, then I am sure its gets the gear from the OBD II, however it may not align in time perfectly to the direct readings because of latency in the CAN bus.

 

[oddball]

Doesn't it get most of the readings from the OBD II connection? The only thing that it can read directly are the MAP, TMAP, (O2) and wastegate DC (if these wires are connected).
If so, then I am sure its gets the gear from the OBD II, however it may not align in time perfectly to the direct readings because of latency in the CAN bus.

MAP and TMAP are the only things directly read by the JB4 from the sensors. Everything else that is logged or displayed is pulled from the OBDII - or guessed.

Remember the JB4 was built to run with *only* the MAP and TMAP connected. Everything else is just a bonus to further tweak its response. I doubt the JB4 reads anything from the wastegate connectors. It also doesn't read anything from the O2 connection. The so-called "fuel wires" are just a current sink. Based on standard O2 sensor calibration, Burger knows how much current needs to be pulled off that wire to move the reading towards lean by X amount. So the JB4 ADC chip gets set up to pull that much current off that wire. So as far as the ECU is concerned, the sensor's output has moved. But it's really that the JB4 is stealing electrons from the signal wire.
You can check this yourself by having the fuel wires connected but disconnect the OBDII. The JB4 will still work perfectly fine but it won't display or log any O2 readings.

Burger posted a few years back that he was having trouble getting the gear off the OBDII bus. I seem to remember him saying the usual OBDII PID for gear was either empty or was clearly unusable. That means you're off into OEM custom extensions/protocols, which means you either hack your way through the data or pay to get access to the specs. Burger clearly has little interest in doing that or else we'd be able to use the Kia diagnostics port under the hood. I can't recall the name of the protocol off hand, but that one only has wires for Kia/Hyundai's proprietary protocol - the OBDII wires aren't present in that one. Well, Kia/Hyundai probably has little interest in giving Burger access to the spec.

 

[rpoffen]

MAP and TMAP are the only things directly read by the JB4 from the sensors. Everything else that is logged or displayed is pulled from the OBDII - or guessed.

Remember the JB4 was built to run with *only* the MAP and TMAP connected. Everything else is just a bonus to further tweak its response. I doubt the JB4 reads anything from the wastegate connectors. It also doesn't read anything from the O2 connection. The so-called "fuel wires" are just a current sink. Based on standard O2 sensor calibration, Burger knows how much current needs to be pulled off that wire to move the reading towards lean by X amount. So the JB4 ADC chip gets set up to pull that much current off that wire. So as far as the ECU is concerned, the sensor's output has moved. But it's really that the JB4 is stealing electrons from the signal wire.
You can check this yourself by having the fuel wires connected but disconnect the OBDII. The JB4 will still work perfectly fine but it won't display or log any O2 readings.

Burger posted a few years back that he was having trouble getting the gear off the OBDII bus. I seem to remember him saying the usual OBDII PID for gear was either empty or was clearly unusable. That means you're off into OEM custom extensions/protocols, which means you either hack your way through the data or pay to get access to the specs. Burger clearly has little interest in doing that or else we'd be able to use the Kia diagnostics port under the hood. I can't recall the name of the protocol off hand, but that one only has wires for Kia/Hyundai's proprietary protocol - the OBDII wires aren't present in that one. Well, Kia/Hyundai probably has little interest in giving Burger access to the spec.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if they perhaps had an ADC that could read the O2 wires or not, could be done but sounds like probably not.
Similarly with the wastegate wires, it could read the DC if it wanted and had the hardware to do it, but it might just be programming the logic to extend or compress the DC based on internal maps.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

MAP and TMAP are the only things directly read by the JB4 from the sensors. Everything else that is logged or displayed is pulled from the OBDII - or guessed.

Remember the JB4 was built to run with *only* the MAP and TMAP connected. Everything else is just a bonus to further tweak its response. I doubt the JB4 reads anything from the wastegate connectors. It also doesn't read anything from the O2 connection. The so-called "fuel wires" are just a current sink. Based on standard O2 sensor calibration, Burger knows how much current needs to be pulled off that wire to move the reading towards lean by X amount. So the JB4 ADC chip gets set up to pull that much current off that wire. So as far as the ECU is concerned, the sensor's output has moved. But it's really that the JB4 is stealing electrons from the signal wire.
You can check this yourself by having the fuel wires connected but disconnect the OBDII. The JB4 will still work perfectly fine but it won't display or log any O2 readings.

Burger posted a few years back that he was having trouble getting the gear off the OBDII bus. I seem to remember him saying the usual OBDII PID for gear was either empty or was clearly unusable. That means you're off into OEM custom extensions/protocols, which means you either hack your way through the data or pay to get access to the specs. Burger clearly has little interest in doing that or else we'd be able to use the Kia diagnostics port under the hood. I can't recall the name of the protocol off hand, but that one only has wires for Kia/Hyundai's proprietary protocol - the OBDII wires aren't present in that one. Well, Kia/Hyundai probably has little interest in giving Burger access to the spec.

You actually can run the JB4 off the diag port under the Hood. I've been doing it for a year now. Just gotta pin the right ports. Number 11 and 8 I think off the top of my head. The OBD2 connector is the same thing, just 2 pins going to the JB4 connector. the 3rd wire is a ground I am fairly certain, as it doesn't seem to effect anything on my car by not having it connected.

 

[Avant]

Throttle does not close when shifting gears. Throttle stays open on our shifts. On your logs, your throttle is closing because you are banging the rev limiter in 1st gear. 1st gear goes quick and although JB4 says you are only at 6300 RPM in your logs, I can assure you are hitting the rev limiter. Notice how its only 1st gear throttle closure? Shift a lot earlier on all gears so you don't fall out of boost. Pull the paddle at 4800, 5000, 5200, 5200, 5200 (1st to 5th)

Also, stop running map 6 with pump gas. If you are on pump gas only stick to map 1 or 2. However, your map2 and map0 have some timing corrections. Map0 is showing up to 6 degrees of timing correction. I would check your plugs and run a little bit of E85. Almost looks like these logs were done on 87 octane.

 

[oddball]

You actually can run the JB4 off the diag port under the Hood. I've been doing it for a year now. Just gotta pin the right ports. Number 11 and 8 I think off the top of my head. The OBD2 connector is the same thing, just 2 pins going to the JB4 connector. the 3rd wire is a ground I am fairly certain, as it doesn't seem to effect anything on my car by not having it connected.

Well blow me down. I went the lazy route: a kia->obdII adapter didn't work, so I gave up.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Well blow me down. I went the lazy route: a kia->obdII adapter didn't work, so I gave up.

Someone on here posted it a while ago, and my OBD2 adapter broke, so I figured I would try it since the adapter was broken. Worked like a charm. I ran some wires and now I have a Quick disconnect JB4.