Piggyback vs ECU tunes--Pros and Cons

[Jonathan Lasich]

I'm starting this new thread to learn the essential differences between the various piggyback tunes and full ECU tunes, rather than highjacking other threads.

Any of the vendors are welcome to chime in and give their opinions as this will likely be the best source of information for the rest of us.

Burger Motorsports
Lap3
Tork Motorsports
Pressertech
Racechip
Unichip
Delicious Tuning
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

All are welcome to give their opinions as to which is better and why, what are the disadvantages of each, and what supporting mods are required for each and why. If you want to consider this as a marketing opportunity to promote your product over others, go ahead and be my guest, but tell us exactly why and go into as much detail as you like.

Hopefully, we can eventually compile a lists of pros and cons for each type so that all members considering tunes can then make the best informed decision they can make as to which tune will be best for their individual needs and wants.

Hopefully this will lead somewhere!

 

[Johnny B]

I currently own the Race Chip Black. It works very well. Has anyone gone from the Race Chip to the JB4? Was there a big difference in performance and usability?

 

[Kamauxx]

I currently own the Race Chip Black. It works very well. Has anyone gone from the Race Chip to the JB4? Was there a big difference in performance and usability?

Is RaceChip still providing support? I haven't seen them around since the initial wave of sales. It seems like they made the sales, updated people on spark plugs requirements, then kind of faded away.

I'd say the biggest difference between them and JB4 (unless I've missed it) is the on going support/development of the JB4. @Terry@BMS is constantly providing firware updates, dyno results, supporting parts, etc.

Of course I could be wrong. RaceChip could be doing the same thing and just not posting about it? What say you @RaceChip ?

*Edit. I just checked and looks like they still post to help customers troubleshoot problems but haven't posted about any 3.3TT product updates in 4 or 5 months.

 

[Terry@BMS]

As a quick summary there are basically three tuning options:

The tuner boxes:
These include RaceChip, Uncle, VR, AFE, TMC, and literally countless others sold under various brand names. They all connect to the same sensors (TMAP, MAP, and sometimes camshaft to read engine speed) and all do the same thing. Offset boost to the DME fooling it in to raising it's boost target. You can make more power this way but without fuel control, CANbus, and more advanced functions have serious drawbacks that will become clear when you see the other options.

The JB4:
This system is unique in that also attaches to the CANbus system giving it access to every vehicle sensor, not just sensors it happens to be physically connected to. The JB4 can also scan data from the ECU (and other modules in the vehicle) such as fuel trims, ignition advance, knock and other tuning information that isn't read from sensors at all. With all the data coming in the JB4 can provide much smoother, stronger, and safer boost remapping. A basic example is the JB4 is the only system that actually incorporates the gas pedal input as part of its mapping, or oil/water temperature to limit boost until the engine is up to temp and taper it if it over heats. There are hundreds of examples in this category.

In addition to boost remapping the JB4 has many additional outputs that can be used for things like fuel control, timing control, water/meth integration, flex fuel integration, etc. Fuel control specifically has proven HUGE with the Stinger platform. See our previous dyno comparison with it. The JB4 has optional blue tooth connectivity for a robust phone app that lets you adjust your mapping on the fly, record and view detailed engine data, make adjustments, etc. User adjustable boost by gear for traction, tons of potential expansion in to other features as development continues like an in dash boost gauge, launch modes, and who knows what else. We've got tons of extra inputs/outputs on the Stinger JB4 control board itself, and a modular harness system, so as we want to add new things it's just a plug in harness patch and firmware update away.

Worth noting: It appears LAP3 is coming out with a product called "ProTuner" similar to the JB4 in terms of it's capability, but they will never recreate our software magic and support levels.

The Flash Maps:
Flash tuners adjust the tables directly within the ECU to revise the power targets. There are maybe 300 different tables depending on how complete your DAMOS is. By changing the ECU tables directly you have a lot more control over what is changed, but a lot more complexity and a lot more opportunity to make unintended mistakes.

With flash tuning you are constrained by the ECU's logic path. You can't just go and make up new logic paths like you can with the JB4. For example we can set the JB4 to scale boost on perceived wheel spin, gear, ethanol mixture, or meth flow. We can set the JB4 to go to a low boost map if boost exceeds some target. With flash mapping you are only able to change values in tables not the logic itself while with the JB4 we can implement whatever logic path we can think of as long as the data is there.

Generally speaking you can normally make a little more power with flash mapping because some parameters like valve timing just can't be adjusted via a piggyback. For example to date I think Torq has made 450whp with their flash mapping, while we've only made 441whp with the JB4. But the major drawback to flashing is that once flashed there is a permanent trace left behind within the ECU that is was modified. There is no going back even if you flash it back to stock. Another drawback is flash mapping is money spent. You can't remove and resell it like you can with a JB4. It seems for the Stinger you can't even change maps at home yet, still need to buy a separate tool for logging and diagnostics, can't change the maps yourself, etc.

Worth noting: The JB4 is a very useful tool for flashed cars as well. Many use it for wireless logging, and minor tuning adjustments when they want to run higher octane fuels at the track, limit boost in lower gears for traction, etc. The JB4 is a useful tuning tool for both stock flash maps and modified flash maps alike.

 

[Dochidalgo]

@Terry@BMS: The best and most complete explanation (pros and cons) I've read so far about the tuning options for my Stinger.
How true it is that more horsepower more gasoline consumption or less MPG?...this statement applies on the JB4 tune?. Obviously, this issue would not be so important when buying a car with 365 HPs or more, if it were not for the high cost of gasoline in my country. Thanks for your reply

 

[Terry@BMS]

Fuel is usage is based on power output and air/fuel ratio. So when making more power you use more fuel, but you only make more power under heavy throttle when you ask for it. So when cruising you'll get the same economy regardless of what tuning is used. With the JB4 fuel control technically you get better mileage at heavy throttle as the AFR is leaner but I doubt its anything you'd notice at the pump.

 

[Dochidalgo]

Fuel is usage is based on power output and air/fuel ratio. So when making more power you use more fuel, but you only make more power under heavy throttle when you ask for it. So when cruising you'll get the same economy regardless of what tuning is used. With the JB4 fuel control technically you get better mileage at heavy throttle as the AFR is leaner but I doubt its anything you'd notice at the pump.

Thank you Sir....

 

[Kato_the_kia_stinger]

Fuel is usage is based on power output and air/fuel ratio. So when making more power you use more fuel, but you only make more power under heavy throttle when you ask for it. So when cruising you'll get the same economy regardless of what tuning is used. With the JB4 fuel control technically you get better mileage at heavy throttle as the AFR is leaner but I doubt its anything you'd notice at the pump.

I tried to message you privately, but I couldn’t. My question: is it better to have already gotten, say, and aftermarket CAI, Catback exhaust, etc. before using the tune options you outlined?

 

[Terry@BMS]

No, best to do tuning first since that adds most of the power. We have a BMS intake in the works we'll be suggesting. The catback as far as I can tell is just for noise/sound.

 

[robz32]

In for the information

 

[Kato_the_kia_stinger]

No, best to do tuning first since that adds most of the power. We have a BMS intake in the works we'll be suggesting. The catback as far as I can tell is just for noise/sound.

Thank you for the information. I had already installed a Typhoon Intake shortly after buying the car. I hadn’t yet taken a serious look at the exhaust options, especially due to the fact that I don’t much mind the factory “note.” I still need to find out more about piggybacks and so on before I make my order. I’m very green to this realm, and it is difficult to find information that is easy enough for a layperson to understand and to feel comfortable with.

 

[StungBlueGT2]

As a quick summary there are basically three tuning options:

The tuner boxes:
These include RaceChip, Uncle, VR, AFE, TMC, and literally countless others sold under various brand names. They all connect to the same sensors (TMAP, MAP, and sometimes camshaft to read engine speed) and all do the same thing. Offset boost to the DME fooling it in to raising it's boost target. You can make more power this way but without fuel control, CANbus, and more advanced functions have serious drawbacks that will become clear when you see the other options.

The JB4:
This system is unique in that also attaches to the CANbus system giving it access to every vehicle sensor, not just sensors it happens to be physically connected to. The JB4 can also scan data from the ECU (and other modules in the vehicle) such as fuel trims, ignition advance, knock and other tuning information that isn't read from sensors at all. With all the data coming in the JB4 can provide much smoother, stronger, and safer boost remapping. A basic example is the JB4 is the only system that actually incorporates the gas pedal input as part of its mapping, or oil/water temperature to limit boost until the engine is up to temp and taper it if it over heats. There are hundreds of examples in this category.

In addition to boost remapping the JB4 has many additional outputs that can be used for things like fuel control, timing control, water/meth integration, flex fuel integration, etc. Fuel control specifically has proven HUGE with the Stinger platform. See our previous dyno comparison with it. The JB4 has optional blue tooth connectivity for a robust phone app that lets you adjust your mapping on the fly, record and view detailed engine data, make adjustments, etc. User adjustable boost by gear for traction, tons of potential expansion in to other features as development continues like an in dash boost gauge, launch modes, and who knows what else. We've got tons of extra inputs/outputs on the Stinger JB4 control board itself, and a modular harness system, so as we want to add new things it's just a plug in harness patch and firmware update away.

Worth noting: It appears LAP3 is coming out with a product called "ProTuner" similar to the JB4 in terms of it's capability, but they will never recreate our software magic and support levels.

The Flash Maps:
Flash tuners adjust the tables directly within the ECU to revise the power targets. There are maybe 300 different tables depending on how complete your DAMOS is. By changing the ECU tables directly you have a lot more control over what is changed, but a lot more complexity and a lot more opportunity to make unintended mistakes.

With flash tuning you are constrained by the ECU's logic path. You can't just go and make up new logic paths like you can with the JB4. For example we can set the JB4 to scale boost on perceived wheel spin, gear, ethanol mixture, or meth flow. We can set the JB4 to go to a low boost map if boost exceeds some target. With flash mapping you are only able to change values in tables not the logic itself while with the JB4 we can implement whatever logic path we can think of as long as the data is there.

Generally speaking you can normally make a little more power with flash mapping because some parameters like valve timing just can't be adjusted via a piggyback. For example to date I think Torq has made 450whp with their flash mapping, while we've only made 441whp with the JB4. But the major drawback to flashing is that once flashed there is a permanent trace left behind within the ECU that is was modified. There is no going back even if you flash it back to stock. Another drawback is flash mapping is money spent. You can't remove and resell it like you can with a JB4. It seems for the Stinger you can't even change maps at home yet, still need to buy a separate tool for logging and diagnostics, can't change the maps yourself, etc.

Worth noting: The JB4 is a very useful tool for flashed cars as well. Many use it for wireless logging, and minor tuning adjustments when they want to run higher octane fuels at the track, limit boost in lower gears for traction, etc. The JB4 is a useful tuning tool for both stock flash maps and modified flash maps alike.

Thanks Terry for such a great explanation! Your customer support is unparalleled and that means a lot to me since I’m actually a Client Service Manager myself.

Regardless, your comments match up to all the research I’ve done including the other debates in our forum. It truly helps clarify the differences, and interested to see if anyone else will be as thorough in their explanations.

Knowledge is power and really appreciate you taking the time to continually educate all of us!

PS: I believe Torks latest dyno results are including exhaust & cat deletes. However, two of his customers dynos with stage 1 Tork ecu and bolt ons got about 405whp. One had catback exhaust and the other had intakes, but both produced similar power. I may be mistaken but looks like until they release stage 1.5 with extra 200whp the JB4 may have the lead in power.

 

[Terry@BMS]

That could be. They should have more flexibility on the power front, maybe they just are not using it yet. That said the JB4 gets you close with a lot more features, at a lower cost, in a package that can be installed and removed easily at home, and most importantly by a company that is out here supporting and engaging with our customers.

 

[RaceChip]

Is RaceChip still providing support? I haven't seen them around since the initial wave of sales. It seems like they made the sales, updated people on spark plugs requirements, then kind of faded away.

I'd say the biggest difference between them and JB4 (unless I've missed it) is the on going support/development of the JB4. @Terry@BMS is constantly providing firware updates, dyno results, supporting parts, etc.

Of course I could be wrong. RaceChip could be doing the same thing and just not posting about it? What say you @RaceChip ?

*Edit. I just checked and looks like they still post to help customers troubleshoot problems but haven't posted about any 3.3TT product updates in 4 or 5 months.

Yes, RaceChip is providing support. You might see less discussion for different reasons. All general questions are answered in the RaceChip threads. For specific questions customers use our customer support directly, which is good. There was some noise when our support struggled to keep up with the increasing sales and customer requests. People did not get a response for days, so they went to the forums. We hired more people and push marketing less, so people get their answers much faster now. We are currently establishing our US location. We already hired Americans and very soon all US operations will be run in the US and not in Germany anymore. Then we might increase our marketing efforts again. Dyno runs, event coverage and so on. We did not sell a beta version of our product but waited for the fully developed product. So, there is not much news on the product development side (except for unspectacular Firmware updates, App updates, …). Not talking about the spark plugs . The usual business now is just fine tuning the performance software to the needs of the individual customers (often just explaining it). Furthermore, it is actually not my task to write in forums, I just did it (mostly in my leisure time) because I was curious and wanted to get in touch with (American) end customers.

 

[RaceChip]

I'm starting this new thread to learn the essential differences between the various piggyback tunes and full ECU tunes, rather than highjacking other threads.

Any of the vendors are welcome to chime in and give their opinions as this will likely be the best source of information for the rest of us.

Burger Motorsports
Lap3
Tork Motorsports
Pressertech
Racechip
Unichip
Delicious Tuning
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

All are welcome to give their opinions as to which is better and why, what are the disadvantages of each, and what supporting mods are required for each and why. If you want to consider this as a marketing opportunity to promote your product over others, go ahead and be my guest, but tell us exactly why and go into as much detail as you like.

Hopefully, we can eventually compile a lists of pros and cons for each type so that all members considering tunes can then make the best informed decision they can make as to which tune will be best for their individual needs and wants.

Hopefully this will lead somewhere!

All technologies have pros and cons, if not they would not exist and be successful. When you ask vendors, they will always say that their technology is the best. Just look at our RaceChip vs. ECU tuning page

Some technologies can go beyond the safety mechanisms of the car, while others stay always within. Some can be heavily customized (e.g. for taking advantage of installing a bigger turbo, etc.), others not. Some can get a CARB E.O., while others mess with emissions. Some can be easily detected (after removal), others not. Some can log or visualize data, while others just focus on the performance upgrade. Some are easy to install and remove, while others are not. It depends on what you want. There is not THE best solution.

For instance, we at RaceChip promote that we always stay within the safety mechanism of the car. That’s good, because you know you are safe (in Europe, we even provide an engine warranty). Though, some WANT to go beyond, which means not removing safety mechanism is a disadvantage. E.g. if you want to remove the rev limiter or just want even more power (and don’t care that much about reliability) or really change the characteristics of the car. I just recommend to only go to reliable, well-known companies, if you want to go beyond. These companies know what they do and care about their reputation.

We have a warm-up timer to protect the engine. Do you need it? No, if you live in Texas and know how to treat a turbocharged engine. Yes, if you live in Canada or love stressing your cold engine.

We have a Smartphone app. Do you need it? A Bluetooth connection won’t add more power, it just makes it more convenient and adds options (change driving modes incl. stock tune, set warm-up timer, adapt the performance software). A RaceChip can be reprogrammed and transferred to another car (remotely if you have the app), which is by the way for free within 3 years.

How can you improve MPG? Not with full throttle and badass driving. Other than that, it is pretty simple. Your automatic transmission shifts to the next higher gear when a certain torque level is reached (on manuals the driver shifts when having enough torque). When you increase the torque of your engine along the whole rpm range, what happens? Correct, you shift earlier to the next higher gear. Earlier means at lower rpms. The lower the rpms, the less fuel you need. This means, if you drive at lower average rpm, your MPG will increase. That’s also the reason why the MPG improvement is higher with tuned diesel cars (the torque gain is higher with diesel engines). If you drive fast and NOT at lower average rpms you won’t save any fuel. In Europe, we have customers that are not at all interested in more hp – only in better MPG. I the US, it is different (maybe because your gas prices are much lower). We don’t get many questions about MPG improvements. People just look at the maximum power at the dyno chart and that’s it. However, this does not stop us putting much effort in the lower rpm ranges, too. Because it’s just very important for the driving pleasure.

We at RaceChip want to go beyond the Piggyback vs. ECU remapping discussion and just combine the advantages of piggybacks (Simple plug and play installation within a few minutes, Easy removal within a few minutes to reset the car to the factory setting, The tuning can't be overwritten during a service, Not messing with OEM protection mechanisms) with ecu remapping advantages (engine load dependent tuning, customizing the performance upgrade to the need of the driver, different mappings).

We also believe that trying to push the sales by talking negative about other companies is not the right way to do business. However, we write fancy marketing texts: Our new product range was launched at the end of 2017 and represents the latest technology. A RaceChip GTS is made of more than 350 hardware components. One of these components is an ARM Cortex processor capable of gathering and optimizing data from the engine sensors via up to seven analogue and digital channels in parallel as well as enabling load dependent tuning. Via a digital user interface, drivers can choose from seven specially calibrated fine-tuning mappings.
No seriously, our hardware is awesome and will last much longer than the 5 years limited warranty period. Our suppliers also serve the German automotive industry and our products are Made in Germany.

A RaceChip will always be a simple to use plug & play performance upgrade, that just works. We take advantage of the fact that the ECU is self-adapting to new values. The ECU remains as „Master“, the security systems are still in place and safety-relevant sensor values (e.g. exhaust temp, oil temp etc.) are not changed. If you want it fancier (e.g. change more parameters and play with it), there are other solutions. Just do me a favor and don’t choose one of those companies popping up with a different name every year making huge promises until they must change their name again. At this point it would be smart by me, if I would mention that we sell 100,000 products per year and have 100 employees at locations in Stuttgart, Munich, Shanghai and – brandnew - California. We have 10+ specialists doing nothing else than developing Hardware, Firmware and Software. Inhouse! More products sold, more specialists, more different engines tuned -> more experience.

- End of RaceChip marketing text -

 

[Savvas]

Does a piggyback tuner give you the ability to add crackle and pop sounds?

 

[xot1]

Does a piggyback tuner give you the ability to add crackle and pop sounds?

No