No Dealer Markup Mixed buying experience at Kia Autoworld

[ryceover]

I recently placed an order for a Stinger GT1 at Kia Autoworld in East Meadow, NY and wanted to share my experiences, most of which is typical.

Earlier in the day, I was at a Kia dealership in Rockville Center, NY, where I test drove a black GT1. Then sat with the sales guy and we went and built one using the web interface. When it came to pricing, the guy simply pointed to the screen's MSRP. I said can you do better than that. He went away and came back 10 minutes later with his manager, who said that he was not going to come down below MSRP "because I don't have to as these cars are going out as quickly as they're coming in".

Then drove to East Meadow and sat with a young sales guy, who asked if I wanted a test drive, I said sure, because you can't ever get enough test drives of the Stinger ... Took a red GT2 around the block a few times. Then sat down to configure my GT1 AWD (personally I don't think the price premium of a GT2 is worth it). When all is said and done, he points to the screen and says "what do you think??"

I said, I'm not paying MSRP ... But let's start with you telling me about the lease cash that KIA is giving. He looks at me like I had two heads ... he goes away and comes back and says, oh yeah, it's $3000. I corrected him and said no, it's $5600 for GT1 and $7200 for GT2. He slinks away and comes back again and apologizes and says I'm right. So, taking off the lease cash gets us down to $42,750, and that's where the tug of war started ... I said I would like 10% off that price, which should be close to your invoice price. He wrote it down and went to his manager; came back and said he could do a lease for $825 a month for 36 months. I said that's not even responsive to my offer. I never asked for a monthly payment amount; I'm interested in hammering down the purchase price of the vehicle. Don't give me a monthly payment. Plus, that's more than the lease payment I have now for my 2015 SQ5, which is $10K more expensive!

I then asked what the money factor and residual was for 36/10k lease on the GT1 AWD. He looked like he's never been asked that question before. He wrote down the question on a stickie and comes back and gives me the numbers for a GT2 36/12K lease. I said that he's wrong because I had the numbers punched up from Edmunds on my phone. I show it to him and he says - "can I borrow your phone to show to my manager?" He comes back and apologies again for the "mistake" and confirms that my numbers were correct.

I then pull up an online lease calculator and show him what I'm doing (he's never seen or used one of these calculator before) ... in the end, after two hours I walk out the door with a purchase price of $41300 36/10k lease for $585 a month $0 down, with taxes, lic and fees. There were no blue GT1 AWD vehicles anywhere, so I have one on order; it's due within 4-8 weeks.

The sales guy was obviously inexperienced and provided a lot of misleading information. I'm not convinced that it was all due to him being a Noob though because the misinformation came from his manager, who I never saw. When I was signing the order sheet I looked up and said "I'll bet you didn't think you were going to sell me a car today, did you?" He said "yeah, I didn't think I was when you pulled out your calculator." I shook my head and chuckled.

What ticked me off the most was that neither dealership voluntarily talked about the lease cash that Kia was offering. And when I did ask, the second dealership was not truthful and said it was $3000 instead of $5600.

While I was sitting there, I saw many people walk in and not one of them asked the right questions. I heard a lot about "does it have car play" or a sunroof, but no one asked about lease cash or money factor or residual value. So much money left on the table if you're not properly armed with information that's freely available on the internet.

 

[mldavis2]

See my post several weeks back "They Lost My Order." I would caution you to check back VERY soon to verify that the order does not get canned and forgotten. I did exactly the same thing -- figured a GT1 AWD Drivewise, which as you say, is a better deal than a GT2 by $3,900. There are none in existence in red which I wanted. The dealer took the order and my deposit of $1,000.

I waited a couple of weeks and called the dealer. He couldn't find the order listed on the Kia computer. He checked all his e-mails and papers and said they were all good, but apparently they do not accept customer build orders, they only supply orders from the assembled pipeline. In my case, the best I can figure is that since the car was nowhere in the pipeline, they simply trashed it without telling my dealer or me. I'd still be waiting if I hadn't checked to make sure it was still on order. Ask for a VIN and a confirmation that it has not been dropped.

Ultimately, I gave up on the GT1 and ordered a GT2. I don't like the more expensive windshield that is needed for the HUD display (I'm on my 6th windshield in my G8 and it needs replacement) and I much preferred the manual shift linkage over the Shift-By-Wire nonsense of the GT2.

So bottom line, follow that order like a hawk and make sure it doesn't disappear. Personally after the salesman outright lied to you on the lease cash amount, I would have quickly found another dealer. I'm afraid you aren't through with that dealer yet. I hope I'm wrong....

 

[MarkyMark]

I recently placed an order for a Stinger GT1 at Kia Autoworld in East Meadow, NY and wanted to share my experiences, most of which is typical.

Earlier in the day, I was at a Kia dealership in Rockville Center, NY, where I test drove a black GT1. Then sat with the sales guy and we went and built one using the web interface. When it came to pricing, the guy simply pointed to the screen's MSRP. I said can you do better than that. He went away and came back 10 minutes later with his manager, who said that he was not going to come down below MSRP "because I don't have to as these cars are going out as quickly as they're coming in".

Then drove to East Meadow and sat with a young sales guy, who asked if I wanted a test drive, I said sure, because you can't ever get enough test drives of the Stinger ... Took a red GT2 around the block a few times. Then sat down to configure my GT1 AWD (personally I don't think the price premium of a GT2 is worth it). When all is said and done, he points to the screen and says "what do you think??"

I said, I'm not paying MSRP ... But let's start with you telling me about the lease cash that KIA is giving. He looks at me like I had two heads ... he goes away and comes back and says, oh yeah, it's $3000. I corrected him and said no, it's $5600 for GT1 and $7200 for GT2. He slinks away and comes back again and apologizes and says I'm right. So, taking off the lease cash gets us down to $42,750, and that's where the tug of war started ... I said I would like 10% off that price, which should be close to your invoice price. He wrote it down and went to his manager; came back and said he could do a lease for $825 a month for 36 months. I said that's not even responsive to my offer. I never asked for a monthly payment amount; I'm interested in hammering down the purchase price of the vehicle. Don't give me a monthly payment. Plus, that's more than the lease payment I have now for my 2015 SQ5, which is $10K more expensive!

I then asked what the money factor and residual was for 36/10k lease on the GT1 AWD. He looked like he's never been asked that question before. He wrote down the question on a stickie and comes back and gives me the numbers for a GT2 36/12K lease. I said that he's wrong because I had the numbers punched up from Edmunds on my phone. I show it to him and he says - "can I borrow your phone to show to my manager?" He comes back and apologies again for the "mistake" and confirms that my numbers were correct.

I then pull up an online lease calculator and show him what I'm doing (he's never seen or used one of these calculator before) ... in the end, after two hours I walk out the door with a purchase price of $41300 36/10k lease for $585 a month $0 down, with taxes, lic and fees. There were no blue GT1 AWD vehicles anywhere, so I have one on order; it's due within 4-8 weeks.

The sales guy was obviously inexperienced and provided a lot of misleading information. I'm not convinced that it was all due to him being a Noob though because the misinformation came from his manager, who I never saw. When I was signing the order sheet I looked up and said "I'll bet you didn't think you were going to sell me a car today, did you?" He said "yeah, I didn't think I was when you pulled out your calculator." I shook my head and chuckled.

What ticked me off the most was that neither dealership voluntarily talked about the lease cash that Kia was offering. And when I did ask, the second dealership was not truthful and said it was $3000 instead of $5600.

While I was sitting there, I saw many people walk in and not one of them asked the right questions. I heard a lot about "does it have car play" or a sunroof, but no one asked about lease cash or money factor or residual value. So much money left on the table if you're not properly armed with information that's freely available on the internet.

Congrats ryceover!

So basically, they took $1,450 off the sticker, along with the lease cash of course.

Personally, I like doing this over email. Yes, I will stop by a dealer and meet my contact, but move it to email and maybe a phone call or two, but have it all documented. With email, it's:
A. Documented
B. Doesn't chew up a lot of my time or there, and emotions are off the table.

Once I get the most they will take off (I believe Costco may be the quickest way to get there -$500 off invoice), then I will ask about lease cash. That might throw a few dealers, because they thought they were "selling" a car per se, but it should not really make any difference. They move a car they move a car, one more into their stair-step program from Kia.

Add in the lease cash and then work on the MF. At this point, I will just highlight the Lease Sheet line, minus their .0004 they have built into the lease number. I'm guessing some dealers won't budge, as they want that money, but some will want to sell the car, and take the flat $150 instead. We'll see, but I won't stop the opportunity over this - I'm going to buyout the lease immediately, so that number is "somewhat" moot.

After that, we just run the numbers. I will keep it nice and clean, paying cash up front for the title and registration, and sales tax... OR now has a brand spanking new - New Car Sales Tax. I kid you not, I think it's called a "Privilege Tax" in the wording of the bill. I won't even go there, it just sucks with the highest gas tax in the nation, high income tax, and property tax... Again, I'll stop right here, it just sucks...

Bottom Line: We must now pay .5% Sales Tax on a new car purchase off MSRP! However, with a lease it is on the Adjusted Capitalized cost, so that helps a bit. I plan on just paying THAT figure in cash also. The only item in the lease will be the car - period.

If they haven't figured it out at this point, they should. I'm buying out immediately. Taking advantages of the Lease Cash.

THOUGHT: Kia dealers are selling an enthusiast car, for perhaps the first time. Stinger people, largely this first year at least, are pretty into cars. And I'm venturing to say a lot of those people are pretty sharp finance-wise. Many have leased or purchased BMW's or Audi's, etc...

This is flat out a different buyer than the Rio or Soul traffic they get day in and day out. You're dear in headlights sales kid that didn't know jack squat? Yah, that's going to happen a lot I'm guessing. And the manager in the back room, yah, he's going to try and see how dumb people are with his up front stupid offers, and get it handed to him time and again until he wises up and learns this is the information age, and Stinger buyers - a LOT of them - won't go for this nonsense.

You have more patience that me for sure! Once he came back with the $3k Lease Cash I would have walked. Which is why I do this via email. No emotions, cleaner, quicker for me and worked really well the last time I purchase (Mazda Dealer).

Again, Congrats!

 

[mldavis2]

The "lease cash" is strictly between Kia Financing and the buyer. The dealer has no dog in that hunt UNLESS you are dumb enough to sign that over to him and let him play with the money. That lease cash is yours. Don't include it in the bargaining until you have a bottom line and start talking leasing.

 

[MarkyMark]

The "lease cash" is strictly between Kia Financing and the buyer. The dealer has no dog in that hunt UNLESS you are dumb enough to sign that over to him and let him play with the money. That lease cash is yours. Don't include it in the bargaining until you have a bottom line and start talking leasing.

Exactly Right!

 

[JustThatPenguin]

Sorry if this a bit off topic but I wanted to chime in on the online buying exprienece. I love cars. I've bought 7 in the past 2 years. Before I thought showing up in person to a dealership not only showed that you were serious but it guaranteed the best deal. My past two cars were purchased "online". I emailed several dealerships within a 100 mile radius. I told them to give me their best offer as I am ready to buy the car today. I then took the best offer, sent it to the others and asked if they will beat it. And once I got the absolute best price, I put a deposit/downpayment down via credit card. Sent the salesman pics of my I'd and insurance. By the time I got to the dealership, my salesman was waiting outside for me. We shook hands, test drove. And once I finally got inside the dealership. The finance manager had all my forms ready. I signed and was driving out with my new car in 10minutes.

 

[mldavis2]

Glad it worked for you. Never has for me. I usually don't get replies back from half of them (they are few and far between where I live) and the others don't want to be nailed down to a number but ask me to come into the dragon's lair and negotiate. I also have to bring the trade-in and that gives them wiggle-room away from any numbers they gave me on the new car. Just hasn't worked for me. Do what works best for you.

 

[Killianz26]

Yeah this is all new to Kia dealers, car enthusiast's coming in.
They really need to change what we call "the dealer game"

Congrats ryceover!

So basically, they took $1,450 off the sticker, along with the lease cash of course.

Personally, I like doing this over email. Yes, I will stop by a dealer and meet my contact, but move it to email and maybe a phone call or two, but have it all documented. With email, it's:
A. Documented
B. Doesn't chew up a lot of my time or there, and emotions are off the table.

Once I get the most they will take off (I believe Costco may be the quickest way to get there -$500 off invoice), then I will ask about lease cash. That might throw a few dealers, because they thought they were "selling" a car per se, but it should not really make any difference. They move a car they move a car, one more into their stair-step program from Kia.

Add in the lease cash and then work on the MF. At this point, I will just highlight the Lease Sheet line, minus their .0004 they have built into the lease number. I'm guessing some dealers won't budge, as they want that money, but some will want to sell the car, and take the flat $150 instead. We'll see, but I won't stop the opportunity over this - I'm going to buyout the lease immediately, so that number is "somewhat" moot.

After that, we just run the numbers. I will keep it nice and clean, paying cash up front for the title and registration, and sales tax... OR now has a brand spanking new - New Car Sales Tax. I kid you not, I think it's called a "Privilege Tax" in the wording of the bill. I won't even go there, it just sucks with the highest gas tax in the nation, high income tax, and property tax... Again, I'll stop right here, it just sucks...

Bottom Line: We must now pay .5% Sales Tax on a new car purchase off MSRP! However, with a lease it is on the Adjusted Capitalized cost, so that helps a bit. I plan on just paying THAT figure in cash also. The only item in the lease will be the car - period.

If they haven't figured it out at this point, they should. I'm buying out immediately. Taking advantages of the Lease Cash.

THOUGHT: Kia dealers are selling an enthusiast car, for perhaps the first time. Stinger people, largely this first year at least, are pretty into cars. And I'm venturing to say a lot of those people are pretty sharp finance-wise. Many have leased or purchased BMW's or Audi's, etc...

This is flat out a different buyer than the Rio or Soul traffic they get day in and day out. You're dear in headlights sales kid that didn't know jack squat? Yah, that's going to happen a lot I'm guessing. And the manager in the back room, yah, he's going to try and see how dumb people are with his up front stupid offers, and get it handed to him time and again until he wises up and learns this is the information age, and Stinger buyers - a LOT of them - won't go for this nonsense.

You have more patience that me for sure! Once he came back with the $3k Lease Cash I would have walked. Which is why I do this via email. No emotions, cleaner, quicker for me and worked really well the last time I purchase (Mazda Dealer).

Again, Congrats!

 

[Kia Stinger]

I recently placed an order for a Stinger GT1 at Kia Autoworld in East Meadow, NY and wanted to share my experiences, most of which is typical.

Earlier in the day, I was at a Kia dealership in Rockville Center, NY, where I test drove a black GT1. Then sat with the sales guy and we went and built one using the web interface. When it came to pricing, the guy simply pointed to the screen's MSRP. I said can you do better than that. He went away and came back 10 minutes later with his manager, who said that he was not going to come down below MSRP "because I don't have to as these cars are going out as quickly as they're coming in".

Then drove to East Meadow and sat with a young sales guy, who asked if I wanted a test drive, I said sure, because you can't ever get enough test drives of the Stinger ... Took a red GT2 around the block a few times. Then sat down to configure my GT1 AWD (personally I don't think the price premium of a GT2 is worth it). When all is said and done, he points to the screen and says "what do you think??"

I said, I'm not paying MSRP ... But let's start with you telling me about the lease cash that KIA is giving. He looks at me like I had two heads ... he goes away and comes back and says, oh yeah, it's $3000. I corrected him and said no, it's $5600 for GT1 and $7200 for GT2. He slinks away and comes back again and apologizes and says I'm right. So, taking off the lease cash gets us down to $42,750, and that's where the tug of war started ... I said I would like 10% off that price, which should be close to your invoice price. He wrote it down and went to his manager; came back and said he could do a lease for $825 a month for 36 months. I said that's not even responsive to my offer. I never asked for a monthly payment amount; I'm interested in hammering down the purchase price of the vehicle. Don't give me a monthly payment. Plus, that's more than the lease payment I have now for my 2015 SQ5, which is $10K more expensive!

I then asked what the money factor and residual was for 36/10k lease on the GT1 AWD. He looked like he's never been asked that question before. He wrote down the question on a stickie and comes back and gives me the numbers for a GT2 36/12K lease. I said that he's wrong because I had the numbers punched up from Edmunds on my phone. I show it to him and he says - "can I borrow your phone to show to my manager?" He comes back and apologies again for the "mistake" and confirms that my numbers were correct.

I then pull up an online lease calculator and show him what I'm doing (he's never seen or used one of these calculator before) ... in the end, after two hours I walk out the door with a purchase price of $41300 36/10k lease for $585 a month $0 down, with taxes, lic and fees. There were no blue GT1 AWD vehicles anywhere, so I have one on order; it's due within 4-8 weeks.

The sales guy was obviously inexperienced and provided a lot of misleading information. I'm not convinced that it was all due to him being a Noob though because the misinformation came from his manager, who I never saw. When I was signing the order sheet I looked up and said "I'll bet you didn't think you were going to sell me a car today, did you?" He said "yeah, I didn't think I was when you pulled out your calculator." I shook my head and chuckled.

What ticked me off the most was that neither dealership voluntarily talked about the lease cash that Kia was offering. And when I did ask, the second dealership was not truthful and said it was $3000 instead of $5600.

While I was sitting there, I saw many people walk in and not one of them asked the right questions. I heard a lot about "does it have car play" or a sunroof, but no one asked about lease cash or money factor or residual value. So much money left on the table if you're not properly armed with information that's freely available on the internet.

Welcome aboard! And thank you for signing up. Thanks for the story. It's a sad story, really. I wish more people were better informed. I hope everything goes well with your purchase and that you have your Stinger very soon...

 

[MarkyMark]

Yeah this is all new to Kia dealers, car enthusiast's coming in.
They really need to change what we call "the dealer game"

This is exactly right. Kia dealers need to professionalize their game more. More affluent and educated people are going to be hitting their email inboxes and showrooms. Dealers playing pre-information age games will cost Kia a lot of Stinger sales... at least their is potential for this..