Experience/recommended tuning options for 3.3TT upgraded turbos + CPI

[919Stinger]

Sooo....I am trying to figure out the best tuning options for my current mods. After a lot of searching / reading, I am still not sure which final route to go. I am trying to see the best ECU/TCU tuning options, while also controlling E85/flex fuel/charge pipe injection mods, as well as the upgraded turbos.

These are the upgraded turbos: 2018-2022 Kia Stinger 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos | TurboKits

What do you guys recommend? I currently have JB4, Flex Fuel kit, CPI kit. (no EK1)
I'm still reading and learning, so any suggestion or input from those knowledgeable with experience in this area is appreciated.

Mods/equipment:
Takeda Momentum Cold Air Intakes
Ultimate Performance HFC downpipes
Charge Pipe Injection Kit
JB4, w/ Flex Fuel Kit
JB4 EWG Add On Connectors
BMS High Performance Intercooler
BMS V2 Transmission Oil Cooler
TurbotKits - 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos

 

[Yves998]

For stock turbo you can just get an EK1 and flash the BEF or go LAP3. Others options are all crap for this platform especially full tunes from SXTH via EK1.

For TK700 you would want to grab a Motec and say F to stock ECU or you're wasting your money. You have to make sure your local tuner is 100% capable of figuring Motec out before pulling the trigger or you'll have to deal with the biggest disappointment.

 

[Thomby]

What do you guys recommend? I currently have JB4, Flex Fuel kit, CPI kit. (no EK1)

I'm pretty sure the EK1 will accommodate the turbo upgrade. Probably worth reaching out to BMS directly as you're getting a little outside the mainstream but probably still something they could give you a map for that gets you 90% of the way there.

If you're going to get that TK700 kit with "ported" manifolds, one big service to the community you could do is grab whatever pictures/measurements you can of the restriction down by the turbo housing. The Tork video below (start around 3:45) says it goes from half dollar sized to too small for a quarter, ie about an inch, so it would be good to know how much material they're able to remove.

 

[919Stinger]

I'm pretty sure the EK1 will accommodate the turbo upgrade. Probably worth reaching out to BMS directly as you're getting a little outside the mainstream but probably still something they could give you a map for that gets you 90% of the way there.

If you're going to get that TK700 kit with "ported" manifolds, one big service to the community you could do is grab whatever pictures/measurements you can of the restriction down by the turbo housing. The Tork video below (start around 3:45) says it goes from half dollar sized to too small for a quarter, ie about an inch, so it would be good to know how much material they're able to remove.

Yeah, I watched that video and listened to everything he was saying, but even he acknowledged that this particular hybrid option is the best option right now without actually going full big turbo, which WILL be cost prohibitive for most folks. (he also says with the stock manifold basically "you're not going to see anything past 650-670 horsepower" - but, soooo...how many horses am I really trying to push out of a Stinger? Not so much that I lose all reliability) Bigger turbos are a whole-nother level of modding and custom work (mo $$$ ) PLUS if you are going bigger than this, pushing MORE boost, then now you are looking to install studs etc and getting into full engine building territory. Most of us want most bang for the buck without going full hog engine building. Turbokits also advised me that their newer V2 of the turbo upgrade has even better upgraded internal "double seals", to prevent the smoking issues. Unfortunately they are already installed without me getting a bunch of pics of them, but there are pics of them online. But for me, I was one of those who the stock turbos basically turned into a smoke machine. They couldn't handle the extra flow and power of JB4 + CPI kit + E85 + HFC exhaust. They still work and have no major failure, but would smoke bad for a little while after you ran hard. This upgrade was a needed one for my car & power level.

Once I get through my tuning options & set up, & after some tweaking, I look forward to getting to the track and getting some numbers (may post some Racebox(Dragy) times prior to that)

 

[919Stinger]

For stock turbo you can just get an EK1 and flash the BEF or go LAP3. Others options are all crap for this platform especially full tunes from SXTH via EK1.

For TK700 you would want to grab a Motec and say F to stock ECU or you're wasting your money. You have to make sure your local tuner is 100% capable of figuring Motec out before pulling the trigger or you'll have to deal with the biggest disappointment.

I already have the Turbokits upgrade installed, and they run fine now, until I unleash their full potential with the best tuning options. I can feel a big difference even prior to getting everything fully dialed in. But I wont doing anything crazy until I get the tune fully worked out...

 

[Yves998]

I already have the Turbokits upgrade installed, and they run fine now, until I unleash their full potential with the best tuning options. I can feel a big difference even prior to getting everything fully dialed in. But I wont doing anything crazy until I get the tune fully worked out...

Find the tuner who's familiar with motec for real and go with that route then. Motec will give you a proper launch too instead of this crappy limiterless launch we are all running at the moment.

Here's your only problem with getting BEF: potential throttle close at shift is not short shifted. As you said you're on TK700 so short shifting is meaningless cuz you want to enjoy the top end powerband. This problem is not 100% occuring for all cars cuz different calibrations have slightly different limiters here and there. If you can shift at 6300rpm+ or even with stock TCU with 9psi over ecu_psi at shift with no throttle close, just stay with BEF and consider yourself as the chosen one. Getting full tune via EK1 from SXTH or NK is impossible for your TK700 so just give up. They can't even dial stock turbo right at the moment.

Lap3 does have some spicy tunes for hybrid turbo. But since only a few has it everything is pretty much gatekeeped. You have to contact David for more info about that.

Headstuds are the must. I hope you get that done before exploring what TK700 can do.

 

[919Stinger]

Find the tuner who's familiar with motec for real and go with that route then. Motec will give you a proper launch too instead of this crappy limiterless launch we are all running at the moment.

Here's your only problem with getting BEF: potential throttle close at shift is not short shifted. As you said you're on TK700 so short shifting is meaningless cuz you want to enjoy the top end powerband. This problem is not 100% occuring fot all cars cuz different calibrations have slightly different limiters here and there. If you can shift at 6300rpm+ or even with stock TCU with 9psi over ecu_psi at shift with no throttle close, just stay with BEF and consider yourself as the chosen one. Getting full tune via EK1 from SXTH or NK is impossible for your TK700 so just give up. They can't even dial stock turbo right at the moment.

Lap3 does have some spicy tunes for hybrid turbo. But since only a few has it everything is pretty much gatekeeped. You have to contact David for more info about that.

Headstuds are the must. I hope you get that done before exploring what TK700 can do.

Just checked online & saw the price. Yikes! lol. (starting at $5K, & up depending on options) Sounds very interesting, but definitely another bag to spend $$ Not sure if Im ready to go that deep yet. Will explore for sure, but not quite yet at this moment. But THANKS for the heads up on the MOTEC, as I was not familiar yet!

I also ran across this post...Curious what they have dialed in on this set up...

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View this content on Instagram

 

[Yves998]

Just checked online & saw the price. Yikes! lol. (starting at $5K, & up depending on options) Sounds very interesting, but definitely another bag to spend $$ Not sure if Im ready to go that deep yet. Will explore for sure, but not quite yet at this moment. But THANKS for the heads up on the MOTEC, as I was not familiar yet!

I also ran across this post...Curious what they have dialed in on this set up...

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

This is why I said JB4 as boost controller to dial a custom map6 and use EK1 to flash BEF for adjusting afr and timing is not a bad choice. Especially consider how cheap it costs. It's pretty straightforward to do too.

You might want BMS to dial a custom TCU for you to push the shift point further than his current 5850rpm settings since you want to enjoy the top end power output. And also of course short shift a lil bit to avoid throttle close if it happens. SXTH can do that too. Their TCU is fine.

Another option is lap3 and it's guaranteed no throttle close at shift since it's a full tune. All limiters are fine tuned to avoid that.

Lozic is waste of money, they offer solid pump gas tune but any tune he offered for 93E30 or 93+Meth is disappointing. Dude have all the resources on his hand to make his tune perfect and he literally refused to do so.

 

[Terry@BMS]

We really need more external wastegate turbo options that replace the entire manifold. I have an updated JB4 board I'll adapt to the Stinger to control them.

 

[Thomby]

We really need more external wastegate turbo options that replace the entire manifold. I have an updated JB4 board I'll adapt to the Stinger to control them.

Is anyone doing standalone manifolds? I'm only aware of the two full kits and "ported" stockers...would love to hear your thoughts if you've worked on any of these:

- Lap 3 full high mount kit ($12k for 600hp, no updates I've seen)
- IMR full high mount kit ($13k for "up to 900hp" but only update has been a "low boost" 500hp dyno)
- Turbokits TK700 with "ported" stock manifolds ($5k but unclear how much porting you can really do)

Edit: looks like the TK700 kit has updated pictures. Dyno shows power building to 6500 which may mean less of a bottleneck up high, but torque peaks at 4000 and immediately falls off. They show the headerfold porting but obviously no way to tell how effective that is.

2018-2022 Kia Stinger 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos | TurboKits

Elevate your driving experience with 2018-2022 Kia Stinger 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos. Take your driving to new heights!

www.turbokits.com

 

[919Stinger]

We really need more external wastegate turbo options that replace the entire manifold. I have an updated JB4 board I'll adapt to the Stinger to control them.

Do you mean a physical hardware / board update for the JB4? I am getting in a SXTH EK1 Mini2+ this week, and will be working to configure it with the JB4. So, am I now also needing an updated JB4 to run proper tunes with the EK1 for the upgraded turbos?

The highest "Power Level" I see listed in SXTH's site for the downloadable Stinger 3.3 tunes are in the range of "Power level: 475-525" (not officially registered yet until I get the device), but I would think I am above that HP with everything I have installed (CPI, E85, upgraded turbos, etc). But, not sure if that is referring to actual HP, or WHP, crank HP? Just trying to be clear on what I am looking at.

@Terry@BMS - Is the tune you have configured for @1wide_gt2 on the SXTH site? Or will I need to reach out to you directly for more on this, with the best option for me having a new custom tune for my set up? (I would assume probably so?) New to the SXTH product and still learning all the technical aspects of the JB4 also, so I am definitely looking to learn how to fully dial in an tweak the best tune for my set up.

Of course, thanks for all the input and contributions!!

 

[919Stinger]

Is anyone doing standalone manifolds? I'm only aware of the two full kits and "ported" stockers...would love to hear your thoughts if you've worked on any of these:

- Lap 3 full high mount kit ($12k for 600hp, no updates I've seen)
- IMR full high mount kit ($13k for "up to 900hp" but only update has been a "low boost" 500hp dyno)
- Turbokits TK700 with "ported" stock manifolds ($5k but unclear how much porting you can really do)

Edit: looks like the TK700 kit has updated pictures. Dyno shows power building to 6500 which may mean less of a bottleneck up high, but torque peaks at 4000 and immediately falls off. They show the headerfold porting but obviously no way to tell how effective that is.

2018-2022 Kia Stinger 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos | TurboKits

Elevate your driving experience with 2018-2022 Kia Stinger 3.3TT TK700 Stage 3 Ball Bearing Hybrid Turbos. Take your driving to new heights!

www.turbokits.com

I have the TK700 kit from Turbokits. Feels like a BEAST right now, but I'm not pushing it too hard quite yet until I get a true proper tune dialed in. But I can easily forego spending another 5k for an even bigger turbo option right now. This hybrid turbo kit should hold anyone off long as they need while looking into a BIG turbo install if so desired (b/c you WILL also need to do more engine work with that set up). So, I say it's a happy median range to be in before committing to additional major upgrades. I'm not quite inclined to go "full build" mode at this time. I have a regular ol' 9 to 5 (and wife looking at me like ) LOL

You can reach out to Jesse @ Turbokits - I'm sure he will be glad to discuss the technical aspects of this turbo upgrade. (FYI - he has the same kit installed on a Stinger there for over a year now. Also mentioned he is running a LAP3 ECU - they are a vendor for them as well)

 

[Thomby]

Feels like a BEAST right now, but I'm not pushing it too hard quite yet until I get a true proper tune dialed in. But I can easily forego spending another 5k for an even bigger turbo option right now. This hybrid turbo kit should hold anyone off long as they need while looking into a BIG turbo install if so desired (b/c you WILL also need to do more engine work with that set up)

Would love to hear more about your setup...what supporting mods you did, whether you have a dyno (or if not, where the boost kicks in and whether power falls off by 6k or continues past it), what you could see for manifold porting, etc. I've never wanted a big Supra dyno queen that needs 4500rpm to spool, but I think Kia went too far the other way with the restrictive manifolds and 1300rpm boost.

I routinely spool the turbos while lazing around town or down the highway, so I think I'd happily push the boost threshold to say 2500 if it meant an extra hundred horsepower (I'm running map 4/5 on E30 so assuming upper 400s). Definitely envious of the Beef58 guys claiming 500whp on stockers and 600+hp with streetable spooling turbos.

 

[Thomby]

I already have the Turbokits upgrade installed

Just wanted to follow up on this...what are/were you running this on? Just a JB4 map? I assume this would mean more airflow at its programmed psi limits, and fueling adjusting appropriately up to a point, but even if you don't exceed the fuel pump, I wonder how close to running off the fuel tables you'd be.

Also, did you do head studs, head gasket, and/or main studs with the turbos?

 

[BIG-D]

Can tell you straight up a car here has over 633rwhp on std head studs and just Bigger fuel pump and turbos....

Whether you believe those figures or not they have been posted on social media... I have spoken to John and I won't be doing anything to improve what I have already 410rwhp :/ until I have a better manifold solution moving forward !!

 

[JohnT]

Nice Motec is spendy

 

[919Stinger]

Just wanted to follow up on this...what are/were you running this on? Just a JB4 map? I assume this would mean more airflow at its programmed psi limits, and fueling adjusting appropriately up to a point, but even if you don't exceed the fuel pump, I wonder how close to running off the fuel tables you'd be.

Also, did you do head studs, head gasket, and/or main studs with the turbos?

So I ended up getting the EK1 Mini2+. I flashed the ECU to a tune from JB4 on SXTH's site, however at this point I am getting overboost limp mode occurring only at around 18psi. Haven't quite figured out why yet. I'm working with Terry @ BMS reviewing logs, and I am double checking my EWG wire connections, making sure there isn't something not connected or working properly.

I still feel the difference in power though even at lower PSI - the upgraded turbos are definitely pushing more air. But currently I can't get above only 16/17 psi without overboost limping with the EK1 BEF ECU flash tune with the JB4. VERY irritating.

Although I ordered main/head studs, I did not opt to have them installed yet. Jesse @ turbokits has the upgraded turbos in his Stinger for over a year with stock head/main studs, and has had no issues thus far. But they do sell the studs as well.

Still trying to get 'er right

 

[Yves998]

So I ended up getting the EK1 Mini2+. I flashed the ECU to a tune from JB4 on SXTH's site, however at this point I am getting overboost limp mode occurring only at around 18psi. Haven't quite figured out why yet. I'm working with Terry @ BMS reviewing logs, and I am double checking my EWG wire connections, making sure there isn't something not connected or working properly.

I still feel the difference in power though even at lower PSI - the upgraded turbos are definitely pushing more air. But currently I can't get above only 16/17 psi without overboost limping with the EK1 BEF ECU flash tune with the JB4. VERY irritating.

Although I ordered main/head studs, I did not opt to have them installed yet. Jesse @ turbokits has the upgraded turbos in his Stinger for over a year with stock head/main studs, and has had no issues thus far. But they do sell the studs as well.

Still trying to get 'er right

Post log here and we can try to figure it out too.

 

[Thomby]

I still feel the difference in power though even at lower PSI - the upgraded turbos are definitely pushing more air

It would be interesting to see a dyno, even with PSI capped, if you have a stable map. Are you just using standard JB4 maps on top of the flash, or did they make you a custom one?

Although I ordered main/head studs, I did not opt to have them installed yet

I see, does that mean you swapped the turbos in the car? Or just don't mind another engine drop for studs once you crank the boost?

I know on other cars sometimes guys will do head studs one by one in the car, which obviously means keeping the stock gasket. But main studs are a full rebuild...I haven't seen anything about those being a weak point so curious why they'd be needed at these power levels.

 

[919Stinger]

It would be interesting to see a dyno, even with PSI capped, if you have a stable map. Are you just using standard JB4 maps on top of the flash, or did they make you a custom one?


I see, does that mean you swapped the turbos in the car? Or just don't mind another engine drop for studs once you crank the boost?

I know on other cars sometimes guys will do head studs one by one in the car, which obviously means keeping the stock gasket. But main studs are a full rebuild...I haven't seen anything about those being a weak point so curious why they'd be needed at these power levels.

It would be interesting to see a dyno, even with PSI capped, if you have a stable map. Are you just using standard JB4 maps on top of the flash, or did they make you a custom one?

I do need to do a dyno soon (although I hate pulling a fuse to do only a RWD dyno, as there are no AWD rear-biased dynos around here I know of) Apparently they program the BEF tune to work with the JB4's maps. So, basically I am running the "JB4 E85 IGN19 BEF" tune (I was told to try this one, although it does not mention consideration of upgraded turbos), and the "stock" JB4 maps. All I can say right now is a lot of money and barely any performance improvement (yet) according to my Racebox(Dragy) times. (would be a great time for any others with a similar set up to chime in to compare notes) ​

I see, does that mean you swapped the turbos in the car? Or just don't mind another engine drop for studs once you crank the boost?

I had a bottom end knock issue on my other engine, it was about toast. Had to swap the engine, so did the turbos at that time as well. I still have that engine to work on or use as needed for parts​

​

I know on other cars sometimes guys will do head studs one by one in the car, which obviously means keeping the stock gasket. But main studs are a full rebuild...I haven't seen anything about those being a weak point so curious why they'd be needed at these power levels.

After long conversations with the mechanics about it, opted to just not worry about the studs for now (like you said, in particular the main studs. The shop said they normally don't see such a robustly built engine except in "performance" cars, even with how the main studs were designed) But head studs I'll worry about later if & when I get ready for the next level of building. I'm not going super crazy on boost once I get things dialed in correctly (maybe 20-23 psi, over that then I probably start rolling the dice)​