3.3TT Drivetrain Swap (RWD > AWD)

[Dwiggy0]

Hey Friends!

I just recently bought myself a MY19 GT Stinger and its a fantastic car, I absolutely love it. Here in Australia we don't have the option of AWD.

My old car was and Audi A5 and man i miss that road hugging Quattro.

Is Drivetrain swap possible? or is it something so complicated and or expensive that its not even worth thinking about?

Thanks for humoring me on this pie in the sky idea of mine.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

In short, not worth it at all. Too much involved.

 

[Dwiggy0]

Yeah I figured as much but just wanted to confirm.

Any OS Stinger AWD owners want to trade for a RWD? ‍

 

[Dwiggy0]

that is not the emoji I chose..

 

[AdrianG]

Yeah the amount of time and money you would have to invest to make that conversion would be outlandish. Not worth it.

 

[vipeboy2000]

it would def require some custom cut/fab work since the awd's have a hump inside the passenger footwell here in the states so i guess driver side there..

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Better off selling your car and Importing the one you want if you really think its worth it.

 

[Volfy]

Do you really need AWD there in Aussie land? I know it does snow up in the Australian Alps, but do folks live up in the mountains where they have to deal with that frequently? Just curious.

 

[Dwiggy0]

it would def require some custom cut/fab work since the awd's have a hump inside the passenger footwell here in the states so i guess driver side there..

Oh, Intresting. I was unaware of this..

 

[Dwiggy0]

Do you really need AWD there in Aussie land? I know it does snow up in the Australian Alps, but do folks live up in the mountains where they have to deal with that frequently? Just curious.

It's not necessary to have AWD here in OZ, no. But i'm a "spirited driver" and feel much more comfortable in something that holds onto the road like a wino holds onto his bottle of cheap red.

Thanks for the input friends. I guess in a few months time when i have an understanding of the Stinger handles, i'll be a lot more comfortable opening it up.

 

[AdrianG]

The AWD is superior to the RWD in almost every way, in my opinion. Are the AWD Stingers difficult to get in Australia? You said you don't have the option, but is importing them relatively easy?

 

[Dwiggy0]

The AWD is superior to the RWD in almost every way

Rub it in !

I would assume that all the AWD Stingers are also Left-Hand Drive?

 

[AdrianG]

Rub it in !

I would assume that all the AWD Stingers are also Left-Hand Drive?

That is a good question. Looking at the Stingers in the UK it looks like they are all RWD, so I kind of have to assume that all AWD Stingers are left hand drive. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Maljey]

It's not necessary to have AWD here in OZ, no. But i'm a "spirited driver" and feel much more comfortable in something that holds onto the road like a wino holds onto his bottle of cheap red.

Thanks for the input friends. I guess in a few months time when i have an understanding of the Stinger handles, i'll be a lot more comfortable opening it up.

If better road holding is a concern, then definitely consider getting bigger, stickier tires. Also, people have reported that upgrading the sway bars helps A LOT. That's mainly for body roll but will give more confidence in spirited driving as well.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Rub it in !

I would assume that all the AWD Stingers are also Left-Hand Drive?

yes.. i believe i remember reading that only rwd for right hand drive... probably because of the placement of the transfer case hump...

 

[Volfy]

The AWD is superior to the RWD in almost every way...

That's debatable. Over road surfaces with limited traction (rough, gravely, rain/snow, etc.), AWD has an undeniable advantage. Dry clean smooth surfaces... the added weight and complexity of AWD might not be worth the slight advantage squirting out of tight corners.

Also, not all AWDs are equal. AWD based on FWD platforms are typically still heavily FWD-biased. As such, they can quite often be an understeer fest. Even AWD based on RWD platforms would only perform optimally when paired with fast e-diffs driven by software for true torque vectoring. Stinger's "torque vectoring" is brake-based and, therefore, behaves more like a safety system for low traction conditions than an enhancement for high-performance driving.

 

[vipeboy2000]

That's debatable. Over road surfaces with limited traction (rough, gravely, rain/snow, etc.), AWD has an undeniable advantage. Dry clean smooth surfaces... the added weight and complexity of AWD might not be worth the slight advantage squirting out of tight corners.

Also, not all AWDs are equal. AWD based on FWD platforms are typically still heavily FWD-biased. As such, they can quite often be an understeer fest. Even AWD based on RWD platforms would only perform optimally when paired with fast e-diffs driven by software for true torque vectoring. Stinger's "torque vectoring" is brake-based and, therefore, behaves more like a safety system for low traction conditions than an enhancement for high-performance driving.

i'm assuming he meant the stinger's awd system though which is similar magna awd to bmw's.. with rwd bias. That's why i'm so glad I found my indigo with the mech. LSD .. in sport hammer in a corner and almost never get brake intervention, just a fantastic hint of oversteer as we rocket out of the twisties.

 

[Volfy]

i'm so glad I found my indigo with the mech. LSD (Limited Slip Differential) .. in sport hammer in a corner and almost never get brake intervention, just a fantastic hint of oversteer as we rocket out of the twisties.

In that scenario, your Indigo essentially regresses back to a RWD. It behaves no different than a RWD Kia Stinger with the same mechanical LSD... except it has an extra 160 lbs over the front axle it needs to overcome in order to rotate into the turn.

And if it truly has "a fantastic hint of oversteer", then by definition, the front wheels have less slip angle than the rear wheels. In layman's terms, that means the front wheels are pointing more to the outside than the rear wheels. If that is really true, then that means the 20% torque (assuming sport mode) sent to the front wheels is not only not helping the car rotate into the turn, it is actively vectoring out of the turn. That... would make zero sense, so logic would dictate that is not what actually happens with your car.

This illustrates quite well the difference between what a driver perceives as the advantage of an AWD vs. the dynamics of what it actually does.

 

[Volfy]

i'm assuming he meant the stinger's awd system though which is similar magna awd to bmw's.. with rwd bias.

Actually... no. Stinger's brake-based "torque vectoring" is a slower reactive system. The body control unit detects excessive yaw in the wrong direction and then reacts by sending brake pressure to a particular corner to exert a countering - or stabilizing - force to bring the attitude of the car back toward neutral.

Other more sophisticated torque vectoring system uses computer algorithms that predicts - based on vehicular sensor readings and driver inputs - where the car needs to vector towards, then sends torque via fast acting electronic differentials (both front/rear and side-to-side) to send power to where it would help steer the car toward the intended vector (direction).

In control system engineering, we call that feed forward, rather than feedback control.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Actually... no. Stinger's brake-based "torque vectoring" is a slower reactive system. The body control unit detects excessive yaw in the wrong direction and then reacts by sending brake pressure to a particular corner to exert a countering - or stabilizing - force to bring the attitude of the car back toward neutral.

Other more sophisticated torque vectoring system uses computer algorithms that predicts - based on vehicular sensor readings and driver inputs - where the car needs to vector towards, then sends torque via fast acting electronic differentials (both front/rear and side-to-side) to send power to where it would help steer the car toward the intended vector (direction).

In control system engineering, we call that feed forward, rather than feedback control.

I wasn't talking about torque vectoring at all, just the fact that the awd system is on a rwd based with transfer case vs fwd awd system you posted here:

That's debatable. Over road surfaces with limited traction (rough, gravely, rain/snow, etc.), AWD has an undeniable advantage. Dry clean smooth surfaces... the added weight and complexity of AWD might not be worth the slight advantage squirting out of tight corners.

Also, not all AWDs are equal. AWD based on FWD platforms are typically still heavily FWD-biased. As such, they can quite often be an understeer fest. Even AWD based on RWD platforms would only perform optimally when paired with fast e-diffs driven by software for true torque vectoring. Stinger's "torque vectoring" is brake-based and, therefore, behaves more like a safety system for low traction conditions than an enhancement for high-performance driving.

I'm aware of how brake based torque vectoring works, i was saying since i have the lsd from the rwd stinger, it behaves more like a rwd stinger since it does not have to be as aggressive on the brake torque vectoring since it behaves more like a rwd to begin with since it's not just an open diff sending all the power the inner rear wheel spinning up like it did on our e39 rwd and wants to rotate the rear outwards more than understeer.

In that scenario, your Indigo essentially regresses back to a RWD. It behaves no different than a RWD Kia Stinger with the same mechanical LSD (Limited Slip Differential)... except it has an extra 160 lbs over the front axle it needs to overcome in order to rotate into the turn.

And if it truly has "a fantastic hint of oversteer", then by definition, the front wheels have less slip angle than the rear wheels. In layman's terms, that means the front wheels are pointing more to the outside than the rear wheels. If that is really true, then that means the 20% torque (assuming sport mode) sent to the front wheels is not only not helping the car rotate into the turn, it is actively vectoring out of the turn. That... would make zero sense, so logic would dictate that is not what actually happens with your car.

This illustrates quite well the difference between what a driver perceives as the advantage of an AWD vs. the dynamics of what it actually does.

i guess i wasn't technically correct in my wording then, I don't get quite the opposite lock without forcing it into a drift with the awd vs a rwd as easily, What I am talking about is the fact that when laying into the throttle mid corner i get the tail end out but i can feel the front tires give me just enough pull to be able to basically hold the front wheels straight while going around the corner vs having a full on drift with opposite lock.

i'm not saying the awd system is actively "Vectoring" me oversteer, but rather having the awd on top of the rwd biased awd with lsd, is hinting at oversteer rather than understeer like my coworkers audi a5 sportback.

so yes, less "oversteer" than just rwd, but still the opposite of understeer since i'm still having to turn "away" from the turn to maintain my line , otherwise i'm will be in oversteer and crash.. lol. It's just a lovely balance that is easier to control than just full on rwd lsd drift mode (which i have used and it is almost rwd at 93% rear biased at that point). Even in just sport mode, the car automatically still gravitates towards oversteer under throttle and i have to give opposite lock in turns without needing a flick/stab of throttle or brake.. just less than a pure rwd and i assume more than a regular awd (i only test drove a regular awd without the lsd and it definitely didn't feel as eager to stick the rear out as mine).