The Buying Process Dick Hannah Kia - Vancouver, Washington

[mldavis2]

I am not a Costco member because there are no Costco stores within hundreds of miles of me. But I cannot believe any dealership would sell any new Stinger at the so-called "dealer invoice" price or even below that. Yes, dealers get extra rebates and incentives for things like quotas, but no dealership can survive selling cars below their net cost. You can find the dealer invoice price on Kelly Blue book web site (it takes a little digging). The dealer invoice price is about $3,000 below MSRP (excluding incentives and quota allowances) plus or minus for various trim levels. I've spent a lot of time surfing these forums waiting for my build order to come in, and I have not yet heard of anyone getting "dealer invoice" price on a Stinger without also paying a bunch of money for high profit add-ons that just add the profit back on top. I think there is also a tendency to mix up the sticker price (MSRP) with dealer invoice, because no one sees the dealer's net cost but the dealer. Not even salesmen most of the time. If you have a trade-in or if you are leasing, you are probably getting hosed in the games they play with leasing numbers and hidden fees inside those figures. A fair price is a fair price and if you really think you are buying below dealer invoice, I don't think you know what that number is, or the dealer is lying, or you're getting charged a bunch on add-ons hidden in the figures, or you're giving your trade-in away. There ain't no free lunch, the salesman and the dealership cannot afford to give cars away at cost or below. What's in it for a dealer to agree to the so-called Costco discount? Potentially more sales which means giving more free cars away? No way. Know your Kelly Blue book values before you agree to anything.

 

[Chris]

I am not a Costco member because there are no Costco stores within hundreds of miles of me. But I cannot believe any dealership would sell any new Stinger at the so-called "dealer invoice" price or even below that. Yes, dealers get extra rebates and incentives for things like quotas, but no dealership can survive selling cars below their net cost. You can find the dealer invoice price on Kelly Blue book web site (it takes a little digging). The dealer invoice price is about $3,000 below MSRP (excluding incentives and quota allowances) plus or minus for various trim levels. I've spent a lot of time surfing these forums waiting for my build order to come in, and I have not yet heard of anyone getting "dealer invoice" price on a Stinger without also paying a bunch of money for high profit add-ons that just add the profit back on top. I think there is also a tendency to mix up the sticker price (MSRP) with dealer invoice, because no one sees the dealer's net cost but the dealer. Not even salesmen most of the time. If you have a trade-in or if you are leasing, you are probably getting hosed in the games they play with leasing numbers and hidden fees inside those figures. A fair price is a fair price and if you really think you are buying below dealer invoice, I don't think you know what that number is, or the dealer is lying, or you're getting charged a bunch on add-ons hidden in the figures, or you're giving your trade-in away. There ain't no free lunch, the salesman and the dealership cannot afford to give cars away at cost or below. What's in it for a dealer to agree to the so-called Costco discount? Potentially more sales which means giving more free cars away? No way. Know your Kelly Blue book values before you agree to anything.

Think again. People buy cars all the time below invoice. Kia has a 3% of msrp give back on all cars sold. (Note the 3% does not include the destination fee) on top of that some dealers get all sorts of other money for selling certain numbers of cars, etc. The last several dealers I worked with printed the sheet right out of their computer that showed me exactly what invoice is. You can also look it up online.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those deals can be had right now on the stinger, but to say you can't buy a car below invoice is wrong.

 

[mldavis2]

I haven't seen a single Stinger go for that price, and a lot of deals have been described online lately for the Stinger. I used to buy cars and trucks in small "wholesale" lots for business dealing directly with the sales manager but it was a flat $500 over invoice and that was for small fleet purchases of common mass-production units. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'll bet there are hidden costs and fees in the lease figures and/or finance payments and trade-in allowances. Small dealers need more profit for smaller volume, and big dealers have much higher overhead. No free lunch.

 

[Dave Miller]

@mldavis2 your opinion is refreshing to hear as a salesman. My ideal great deal for a customer is $500 over invoice. Yes, the dealer makes a small amount of money selling at exactly invoice, but I consider the holdback to be what pays our employees and keeps the lights on. I don't think it is inconceivable to let the dealer make $500 (1% profit on a GT2). They aren't selling thousands of products a day like a grocery store, they need to do more than make a few pennies per product.

 

[SEA Stinger]

The dealer invoice price is about $3,000 below MSRP (excluding incentives and quota allowances) plus or minus for various trim levels. I've spent a lot of time surfing these forums waiting for my build order to come in, and I have not yet heard of anyone getting "dealer invoice" price on a Stinger without also paying a bunch of money for high profit add-ons that just add the profit back on top.

@mldavis2, here's a real-world example: I got my 2.0 Premium for $3,000 off MSRP, plus a $6,700 lease rebate. No trade-in was involved.

I agree with you that the dealer should be able to make a fair gain on the transaction, so I didn't object when mine included a $650 acquisition fee and a $150 doc fee. That amounted to an $800 takeback from a gross discount of $9,700, leaving me with a net reduction off MSRP of $8,900. Further, the dealer was a pleasure to work with.

The lease did have a 4.67% interest rate, but buying out the lease shortly afterwards is also a breeze - just pay the remaining capital balance (plus sales tax) at the time of buyout and a $300 purchase charge, with no interest or other charges. No muss, no fuss. (Note that an early buyout on a lease is a very different animal than Early Termination, where the lessee gets totally hosed.)

There ain't no free lunch, the salesman and the dealership cannot afford to give cars away at cost or below. What's in it for a dealer to agree to the so-called Costco discount? Potentially more sales which means giving more free cars away? No way. Know your Kelly Blue book values before you agree to anything.

Generally agree with you here. The problem is that too many dealers are duping uniformed buyers into giving them a free lunch. Selling a car like the Stinger doesn't require the dealer to make anything like a $3,000+ profit, much less in the obscene case of Dick Hanna, who is asking $8,000 above invoice.

 

[Kia Stinger]

@CraigW, check out the Potential Buyers thread in the Kia Stinger Talk section!

I moved that thread into the Great Lakes area so people who might be interested will have an easier time finding it. I also updated the title a bit to indicate the location...

 

[SEA Stinger]

I moved that thread into the Great Lakes area so people who might be interested will have an easier time finding it. I also updated the title a bit to indicate the location...

Sounds good.

The point I wanted to make is that if dealers in any local area are trying to sell Stingers at unreasonably high prices, most buyers don't need to feel stuck. Casting the net a little wider can definitely be worthwhile!

For example, I bought my car at Smith KIA in Bellingham, WA, 90 miles north of where I live. Negotiated pricing and confirmed the deal with the dealer via a couple of phone calls and emails one afternoon. Next morning I went to Bellingham, signed the paperwork and picked up the car. Dealer was great to work with.

I just checked Smith KIA now, and they are advertising Stingers below MSRP. Will post an update about this over on the Smith KIA thread in the Dealer Experience section.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Sounds good.

The point I wanted to make is that if dealers in any local area are trying to sell Stingers at unreasonably high prices, most buyers don't need to feel stuck. Casting the net a little wider can definitely be worthwhile!

For example, I bought my car at Smith KIA in Bellingham, WA, 90 miles north of where I live. Negotiated pricing and confirmed the deal with the dealer via a couple of phone calls and emails one afternoon. Next morning I went to Bellingham, signed the paperwork and picked up the car. Dealer was great to work with.

I just checked Smith KIA now, and they are advertising Stingers below MSRP. Will post an update about this over on the Smith KIA thread in the Dealer Experience section.

Do you think I should move it back into the main area?

 

[SEA Stinger]

Do you think I should move it back into the main area?

No worries! I think this thread is fine the way you have it now. I just posted my update on Smith KIA over on that thread.

 

[CraigW]

Did Costco have anything to say when you let them know about your dealer experience @CraigW?

I haven't heard back from them yet. With the weekend and Presidents Day tomorrow I'm thinking I might not hear anything until next week sometime.

There is also no set rule for the Costco program. I've bought three cars through the program and inquired about a couple more. The dealership does seem to have the flexibility of which models and at what price points they sell them. There's no flat "the Costco program requires you to sell every car at $X above/below invoice/MSRP."

 

[Jeaddi]

When I was shopping for my Stinger, I went through the Costco purchase program and was referred to a dealer about 25 minutes away. Sales called me immediately and proceeded to tell me that the discount was $350 off of MSRP. I called Costco and they verified.

As @CraigW mentioned, there is no set discount through the program. Just participating dealers that Costco has negotiated a discount with on certain models.

 

[SEA Stinger]

When I was shopping for my Stinger, I went through the Costco purchase program and was referred to a dealer about 25 minutes away. Sales called me immediately and proceeded to tell me that the discount was $350 off of MSRP. I called Costco and they verified.

As @CraigW mentioned, there is no set discount through the program. Just participating dealers that Costco has negotiated a discount with on certain models.

One big takeaway from all of this is that Costco prices can be significantly higher than what's available to customers via other means. I would have expected Costco to do better, both in the prices they actually get and in the way they represent the program. Disappointing, but good information to know. Also a PITA that dealers like Dick Hannah dangle Costco pricing as part of a bait and switch gambit.