2021 Stinger listed with 2.0T and 3.3T

[Waynerm002]

Was checking out fueleconomy.gov and found the 2021 Stinger listed with the current engines. Rumor is that the 2021 Stinger should be released for Korea this month however, the US market typically follow some months later. In a normal year, this would have already been introduced and on sale already in Korea. We might continue to get the current engines for 2021 and have a 2021.5 version with the new engines or it may just get interior updates and the new engines for the next model.

Anyone here have any info on this they can share?

 

[gilthanis1]

Motor 1 Article and a couple others have confirmed the new 2.5, but the GT will still get the 3.3 TT. No 3.5 TT for 2021, unfortunately.

 

[Luc343]

Motor 1 Article and a couple others have confirmed the new 2.5, but the GT will still get the 3.3 TT. No 3.5 TT for 2021, unfortunately.

Makes since as they are calling it a facelift model. However, 3.5tt would be nice.

 

[Waynerm002]

Info on the Stinger face lift changes almost daily. KIA had posted info on the AWD Optima fuel economy on that site, that is how we learned that the AWD is only going to be available on the 1.6T. Prior to that it was all speculation, then it was removed a couple of days later and then re-posted closer to the Optima's launch date. I know the Stinger 2.0T version could benefit from a more powerful engine and the 2.5T would be a good fit. If they also lightened the chassis, that would make it a really good buy but, it is more likely the more expensive version would get that treatment (aluminum hood/trunk/doors), like the G80 or that would come on the next version.

 

[Mike_TX]

I still wish Kia would offer both engine choices over the whole lineup. I'd probably jump on a 2.5T 2021, but only if I could get the full boat of options. If it's ~300hp as reported, that's plenty for me. If they continue to limit the options available on the 4cyl like they have with the 2020 model, I have zero interest in getting another 4cyl turbo.

But I also don't want to have to get the 3.3T (or 3.5T) just to get the good stuff. I know they're upselling to the V6 on purpose, but like other aspects of their marketing strategy, I think they're denying themselves some sales.

 

[LegacyGTv2.0]

I don't see any reason for them to put the 2.5L in for the USDM. They're clearly trying to push people towrd the GT trims, and the 2.5L seems like an odd choice.

 

[Mike_TX]

I don't see any reason for them to put the 2.5L in for the USDM. They're clearly trying to push people towrd the GT trims, and the 2.5L seems like an odd choice.

Thing is, if they offered al the same equipment and options, they'd make as much money on 2.5-engined models as the 3.3 ones.

Put another way, they're probably not making more profit just because the cars have a V6 engine ... in fact, I'll bet the profit margin for Kia is about the same or even less on the V6's, because they have to beef up the drivetrain more and include more equipment (variable-ratio shocks, LSD, etc.).

So I don't see any reason to push buyers toward the GT's.

 

[Waynerm002]

In Korea you can get it that way but in the US market, you can't get some of the options from a top trim on a lower trim car. That is all decided by the US dealer group. We should have the option to get a loaded lower trim car if we want it that way. Of course when you are pushing economy, adding more equipment makes the car heavier and less efficient. If on the other hand they gave the car everything and folks were ok with the economy, then they might do it.

 

[Travis Wills]

Motor 1 Article and a couple others have confirmed the new 2.5, but the GT will still get the 3.3 TT. No 3.5 TT for 2021, unfortunately.

Honestly, I don’t want a 3.5TT. They could easily get all the horsepower we would ever want out of 3.3 liters. BMW is getting about 500 HP out of their 3.0TT engines now. Our cars already have 10% more displacement than the competition. Why would we want even more displacement?

Increasing displacement increases weight and not just in the engine block itself. It increases piston weight or at the very least limits piston speed.

What our cars need is to make more torque higher in the rev range. You can’t do that with an even larger engine.

Kia should just make the engine rev a little higher and tune it to keep torque up as you approach redline. The 3.3 liter engine could easily produce 410 HP and 420 lb ft if they wanted it to. That would be enough for me.

 

[Jayphil]

Honestly, I don’t want a 3.5TT. They could easily get all the horsepower we would ever want out of 3.3 liters. BMW is getting about 500 HP out of their 3.0TT engines now. Our cars already have 10% more displacement than the competition. Why would we want even more displacement?

Increasing displacement increases weight and not just in the engine block itself. It increases piston weight or at the very least limits piston speed.

What our cars need is to make more torque higher in the rev range. You can’t do that with an even larger engine.

Kia should just make the engine rev a little higher and tune it to keep torque up as you approach redline. The 3.3 liter engine could easily produce 410 HP and 420 lb ft if they wanted it to. That would be enough for me.

People do not dream about 3.5t because of .2 more dispacement, 3.3 lambda is a quite old engine (yes it has evolved but still based on old engine)... 3.5T have direct injection as well as port injection which will avoid carbon build up on the valves. 3.5T also have water-cooled intercooler, continously variable valves etc. So in summary many new tech that helps reliability, performance, fuel consumption etc...

FYI also the piston bore of 3.5T vs 3.3T is the same, they only increased the stroke...

 

[YEH]

We typically don't get the updates or new models until 5-6 months after they have been launched in Korea, so the FL Stinger would be a '22MY for us.

Seems like no 3.5TT upgrade just yet, likely due to the Stinger getting t he higher output engine (420 hp that will first be going into the G80 Sport).

The 2.5T will offer enough power (around 300 hp) for the majority of buyers and is especially important for markets like Europe where emissions regs are only getting more stringent.

Same will go for the 3.5TT.

 

[Travis Wills]

People do not dream about 3.5t because of .2 more dispacement, 3.3 lambda is a quite old engine (yes it has evolved but still based on old engine)... 3.5T have direct injection as well as port injection which will avoid carbon build up on the valves. 3.5T also have water-cooled intercooler, continously variable valves etc. So in summary many new tech that helps reliability, performance, fuel consumption etc...

FYI also the piston bore of 3.5T vs 3.3T is the same, they only increased the stroke...

Increasing the stroke greatly limits the rev range in both max rpm and ability to maintain torque at high rpms. If you want more power the things you mentioned will help but it would be much more efficient to just reduce displacement and increase boost especially with a better intercooler and better valve timing. There is nothing stopping them from putting those technologies in a new version of the 3.3TT.

 

[Aero2001]

I don't see any reason for them to put the 2.5L in for the USDM. They're clearly trying to push people towrd the GT trims, and the 2.5L seems like an odd choice.

Thing is, the upcoming K5 GT will have the 2.5T for a much lower MSRP than a base Stinger, and the K5 GT will be well-equipped otherwise too. So, to maintain the model hierarchy if nothing else, the Stinger really needs the 2.5T.

 

[Jayphil]

both max rpm and ability to maintain torque at high rpms. If you want more power the things you mentioned will help but it would be much more efficient to just reduce displacement and increase boost especially with a better intercooler and better valve timing. There is nothing stopping them from putting those technologies in a new version of the 3.3TT.

Travis,

I believe you are a bit inconsistent, you benchmark BMW 3.0T engine yet do not seem to have deep knowledge in those since now you talk about increasing stoke being a problem on the 3.3T... As you can see below the 3.3T is oversquare and have a very short stroke and strangely KIA decided to keep a very low redline while in theory they would have been able to have it highier because of the short stroke engine.

In comparison the BMW B58 have a significant longer stroke yet highier redline in most of their car so the stroke of the 3.5T still quite shorter than the stroke of the BMW B58 should not be the limiting factor for highier RPM and red line....

So if BMW engine is the benchmark in terme of stroke/bore ration the 3.5T is still far from it. And yes they could put all new technologies on the 3.3T but why doing so if all this is already tested and working on the new engine? They should only increase the turbo size to they it can keep the boost in the highier RPM range and improve cooling if they want to keep the 3.3t for now while significantly increasing the hp but all of this based on rumor aint happening.

3.3T is oversquare (1,10 ratio)
Bore: 92.0 mm (3.60 in)
Stroke: 83.8 mm (3.30 in)

3.5T is oversquare but closer to be square (1,06 ratio)
Bore: 92 mm (3.6 in)
Stroke: 87 mm (3.4 in)

3.0T B58 from BMW just to compare is undersquare (0,87 ratio)
82 mm (3.23 in)
94.6 mm (3.72 in)

 

[Jayphil]

Thing is, the upcoming K5 GT will have the 2.5T for a much lower MSRP than a base Stinger, and the K5 GT will be well-equipped otherwise too. So, to

Fully agree with your the K5 GT 2.5T will have a MSRP of 3-4k lower than the Stinger 2.0t. If this is happening the Stinger 2.0t that does not sell well already will be even worst.

 

[Travis Wills]

Travis,

I believe you are a bit inconsistent, you benchmark BMW 3.0T engine yet do not seem to have deep knowledge in those since now you talk about increasing stoke being a problem on the 3.3T... As you can see below the 3.3T is oversquare and have a very short stroke and strangely KIA decided to keep a very low redline while in theory they would have been able to have it highier because of the short stroke engine.

In comparison the BMW B58 have a significant longer stroke yet highier redline in most of their car so the stroke of the 3.5T still quite shorter than the stroke of the BMW B58 should not be the limiting factor for highier RPM and red line....

So if BMW engine is the benchmark in terme of stroke/bore ration the 3.5T is still far from it. And yes they could put all new technologies on the 3.3T but why doing so if all this is already tested and working on the new engine? They should only increase the turbo size to they it can keep the boost in the highier RPM range and improve cooling if they want to keep the 3.3t for now while significantly increasing the hp but all of this based on rumor aint happening.

3.3T is oversquare (1,10 ratio)
Bore: 92.0 mm (3.60 in)
Stroke: 83.8 mm (3.30 in)

3.5T is oversquare but closer to be square (1,06 ratio)
Bore: 92 mm (3.6 in)
Stroke: 87 mm (3.4 in)

3.0T B58 from BMW just to compare is undersquare (0,87 ratio)
82 mm (3.23 in)
94.6 mm (3.72 in)

You absolutely can make a longer stroke engine rev higher and maintain horsepower at higher rpms but not without incurring MUCH more cost. Yes, I made the assumption that the 3.5 liter engine is going to be marginally more expensive than the 3.3 liter engine and thus it will have similar technologies and similar characteristics. The BMW engine performs so well with a longer stroke because it has much more expensive technologies in the version(S58) that has similar or better performance than the Stinger.

The 3.5T in the QV80 makes 375 HP at 5,800 rpm and 391 lb ft between 1,300-4500 rpm. The Stinger 3.3 liter is 365 HP at 6,000 rpm and 376 lb ft between 1,300-4,500 rpm. The QV80 has marginal gains for its 3.5 liter engine over the 3.3 liter engine and the horsepower peak is a little bit lower. Those all fall in line with the fact that the 3.5 liter engine is similar in design to the 3.3 liter but the added stroke produces marginal gains in torque and horsepower but loses a bit of high rpm capabilities.

A 10 horsepower gain isn't going to make anyone trade their 3.3 liter Stinger for a 3.5 liter Stinger. It needs more like a 50 horsepower gain. The current 3.3 liter engine has a relatively low compression ratio(10:1) and can easily tolerate more boost as the aftermarket tuners have shown. Kia could easily keep the 3.3 liter displacement and up the boost without adding any additional parts or technologies in the engine at all. The warranty might be a concern but they could probably charge slightly more to compensate for that.

Increasing the stroke will help with torque to some extent but that isn't really all that the customers want to see. They want more horsepower and increasing the stroke of an engine is never the best way to produce more significantly more horsepower. That might be a good option for increasing torque but not for horsepower. You will get into diminishing returns quickly if you are only increasing stroke and expecting to gain a significant amount of horsepower.

 

[ecko04]

In the last thread I was “jumped” because I said the 2021 model would soldier on with the 3.3TT. People were upset and telling me why that wouldn’t make any sense for KIA to do despite the evidence to support that it would make sense.

I’m just waiting for the official announcement so I can see how many people start backtracking from their original proclamation of the 3.5TT being a sure thing, or using it as justification if sales don’t skyrocket and we’re back having the same discussion in 2 years about whether the Stinger was a sales flop despite it being a very good car.

 

[Travis Wills]

In the last thread I was “jumped” because I said the 2021 model would soldier on with the 3.3TT. People were upset and telling me why that wouldn’t make any sense for KIA to do despite the evidence to support that it would make sense.

I’m just waiting for the official announcement so I can see how many people start backtracking from their original proclamation of the 3.5TT being a sure thing, or using it as justification if sales don’t skyrocket and we’re back having the same discussion in 2 years about whether the Stinger was a sales flop despite it being a very good car.

Stinger sales over the last two months have been absolutely outstanding when you compare it to the competition. SUV sales are definitely dwarfing sedan sales. However, the lack of Tellurides being available has definitely helped Stinger sales. If Kia can continue to sell Stingers the way they are. Kia will do exactly that.

Go look at INFINITI's sales numbers for last quarter and the last year. They are absolutely, positively, abysmal. I don't understand how their doors are even still open.

 

[Waynerm002]

Knowing KIA (Hyundai and Genesis as well), they aren't going to push their engines too high to ensure they can maintain that 10 year/100k miles warranty. Adding in their new smart stream system will give their vehicles better economy, which is something they have struggled with. Since my first Optima Hybrid to the present 2017 model, I can appreciate the better economy that system provides. For me, I would take a 2.5T with a hybrid system, decent performance when I want it and good economy when I need it. I know I am in the minority on this factor, but that is a direction I hope KIA would go with the Stinger as an option. I have to be realistic, with my car being my daily driver and i'm not always able to "open her up" during my commute, it is good to cruise around the city in EV mode and have the power and hybrid flexibility on the highway.

 

[KAS]

Go look at INFINITI's sales numbers for last quarter and the last year. They are absolutely, positively, abysmal. I don't understand how their doors are even still open.

Infiniti Australia's sales were so poor they've withdrawn from the market completely. Hopefully the same won't happen to Genesis.