3.3TT Lap3 and Turbokits: Hybrid Turbos 600whp

[Stiletto]

even tuned u still get blow back from turbos

I don't think you mean blowback. If that happens, there are serious issues. Do you mean blow by?

 

[niko]

I don't think you mean blowback. If that happens, there are serious issues. Do you mean blow by?

Sorry yes this is what I meant I was half asleep lol

 

[HoosierStinger]

even tuned u still get blow back from turbos

A step gap ring (turbine seal) is supposed to help prevent blowing oil past the turbine shaft. I went from zero oil consumption to 1qt every 1k-2k miles after changing the primary cats to hfc and deleting the secondary cats.

Looking back on things I should've never removed the primary cats. I guess it created to much of a pressure indifference. Unfortunately, I already sold my oem primary cats for scrap. BIG MISTAKE LOL

 

[Stiletto]

Sorry yes this is what I meant I was half asleep lol

Even still...oil going through to the turbine side is not normal on a factory (albeit tuned) setup. I would think we'd be hearing about thousands of modded Stingers getting oil past the turbo seals.

 

[Stiletto]

A step gap ring (turbine seal) is supposed to help prevent blowing oil past the turbine shaft. I went from zero oil consumption to 1qt every 1k-2k miles after changing the primary cats to hfc and deleting the secondary cats.

Looking back on things I should've never removed the primary cats. I guess it created to much of a pressure indifference. Unfortunately, I already sold my oem primary cats for scrap. BIG MISTAKE LOL

Reading about your situation has me re-thinking the IMR catted pipes I have sitting in my garage. They are the last piece of the exhaust that I would modify. Between the threat of snapping a turbo stud (and having possibly drop the engine to drill it out) and the seals failing, I may just skip the primaries.

 

[HoosierStinger]

Reading about your situation has me re-thinking the IMR catted pipes I have sitting in my garage. They are the last piece of the exhaust that I would modify. Between the threat of snapping a turbo stud (and having possibly drop the engine to drill it out) and the seals failing, I may just skip the primaries.

Are they 200 or 400 cell? I've heard the 400 cell help prevent blowing oil. I can only share the experience I've had with 200 cell.

Soak the nuts and studs several times over a few days with PB blaster. That's what I did. I didn't break any. If you start blowing oil put the oem primaries back on. If you choose to go through with it

 

[AWDGT2]

I have the Ultimate Performance HFC 400 cell and I've had zero issues what so ever. Hoosier has good advice, and you will gain HP. Not so much from the HFC per se, but the stock Primary is choked down to 1 1/2" right where it bolts to the turbo. They are worth it.
Edit...
If I could make one recommendation. If you're in a state or county like me that requires emissions inspection, I HIGHLY recommend these. A Tuned ECU will not pass emissions inspection, so if you put your stock one back in, it will see that there is no cat in the secondary and it will not pass again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I threw these in last minute and got the car to pass no issues. I left them in and threw my Sxth ECU back and I was GTG.

IMR 45 Degree 02 Sensor Cat for Stinger and G70

IMR now offers tiny cats for your down stream O2 sensors on your primary down pipes! Your sensor detects a cat.... but you don't impede exhaust flow! These have been proven on the IMR shop car for the past six months. The have eliminated engine code P04020 associated with 02 Sensor malfunction...

www.imramerica.com

 

[Stiletto]

Are they 200 or 400 cell? I've heard the 400 cell help prevent blowing oil. I can only share the experience I've had with 200 cell.

Soak the nuts and studs several times over a few days with PB blaster. That's what I did. I didn't break any. If you start blowing oil put the oem primaries back on. If you choose to go through with it

IMR uses 200 cell. UP and NGT are 400 cell.

I coated them with Aerokroil. My mechanic said the locking nuts are common on turbo flanges and are the reason the studs snap.

 

[Stiletto]

I have the Ultimate Performance HFC 400 cell and I've had zero issues what so ever. Hoosier has good advice, and you will gain HP. Not so much from the HFC per se, but the stock Primary is choked down to 1 1/2" right where it bolts to the turbo. They are worth it.
Edit...
If I could make one recommendation. If you're in a state or county like me that requires emissions inspection, I HIGHLY recommend these. A Tuned ECU will not pass emissions inspection, so if you put your stock one back in, it will see that there is no cat in the secondary and it will not pass again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I threw these in last minute and got the car to pass no issues. I left them in and threw my Sxth ECU back and I was GTG.

IMR 45 Degree 02 Sensor Cat for Stinger and G70

IMR now offers tiny cats for your down stream O2 sensors on your primary down pipes! Your sensor detects a cat.... but you don't impede exhaust flow! These have been proven on the IMR shop car for the past six months. The have eliminated engine code P04020 associated with 02 Sensor malfunction...

www.imramerica.com

View attachment 80456

I agree, those pipes are where the biggest gains are for the exhaust system. But if the stud snaps and they can't drill it out without dropping the engine, it isn't worth the power to me. An 19 hour engine removal is $2k. At that point, I'll just save up for the IMR turbo kit!

Thankfully, no emissions tests where I reside.

 

[HoosierStinger]

IMR uses 200 cell. UP and NGT are 400 cell.

I coated them with Aerokroil. My mechanic said the locking nuts are common on turbo flanges and are the reason the studs snap.

NGT also used 200 cell prior to changing to 400 cell. I have their a set of their 200 cell. The passenger side was actually replaced under warranty. It got clogged and collapsed. I might buy a set of 400 cell to help prevent this from happening again.

 

[Thomby]

One person made a good case concerning exhaust restrictions. The small manifold going from the heads to the turbos can't remove the exhaust gases fast enough. Cramming more in the engine with no where for it to go (hybrid turbos). Back pressure builds and temps climb. Making for a bad situation.

It's unfortunate the hybrid turbos are not reliable - does anyone know their failure mode?

Here's the restriction -- around 3:40 in this video. Supposedly smaller than a quarter (<1")"

I have the Ultimate Performance HFC 400 cell and I've had zero issues what so ever. Hoosier has good advice, and you will gain HP. Not so much from the HFC per se, but the stock Primary is choked down to 1 1/2" right where it bolts to the turbo. They are worth it.
Edit...
If I could make one recommendation. If you're in a state or county like me that requires emissions inspection, I HIGHLY recommend these. A Tuned ECU will not pass emissions inspection, so if you put your stock one back in, it will see that there is no cat in the secondary and it will not pass again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I threw these in last minute and got the car to pass no issues. I left them in and threw my Sxth ECU back and I was GTG.

IMR 45 Degree 02 Sensor Cat for Stinger and G70

IMR now offers tiny cats for your down stream O2 sensors on your primary down pipes! Your sensor detects a cat.... but you don't impede exhaust flow! These have been proven on the IMR shop car for the past six months. The have eliminated engine code P04020 associated with 02 Sensor malfunction...

www.imramerica.com

View attachment 80456

I was excited by this chart, and thought downpipes were a no-brainer to remove more of a bottleneck than a catback, but everyone here seemed to think gains were minimal (and the video above indicates the manifold/housing is an even tighter restriction). I don't suppose you have a before/after dyno?

 

[Devin]

This needs a diagram.

 

[GennyGuy]

I have the Ultimate Performance HFC 400 cell and I've had zero issues what so ever. Hoosier has good advice, and you will gain HP. Not so much from the HFC per se, but the stock Primary is choked down to 1 1/2" right where it bolts to the turbo. They are worth it.
Edit...
If I could make one recommendation. If you're in a state or county like me that requires emissions inspection, I HIGHLY recommend these. A Tuned ECU will not pass emissions inspection, so if you put your stock one back in, it will see that there is no cat in the secondary and it will not pass again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I threw these in last minute and got the car to pass no issues. I left them in and threw my Sxth ECU back and I was GTG.

IMR 45 Degree 02 Sensor Cat for Stinger and G70

IMR now offers tiny cats for your down stream O2 sensors on your primary down pipes! Your sensor detects a cat.... but you don't impede exhaust flow! These have been proven on the IMR shop car for the past six months. The have eliminated engine code P04020 associated with 02 Sensor malfunction...

www.imramerica.com

View attachment 80456

My state requires an emission and safety inspection every year. I have catless primaries which will throw a code. Lap3 tune eliminates the CEL and I pass with the tuned ecu installed. I've also passed with Lozic ECU and no primary cat.

The o2 sensors from IMR didn't work on my car.

 

[GennyGuy]

Here's the restriction -- around 3:40 in this video. Supposedly smaller than a quarter (<1")"

I was excited by this chart, and thought downpipes were a no-brainer to remove more of a bottleneck than a catback, but everyone here seemed to think gains were minimal (and the video above indicates the manifold/housing is an even tighter restriction). I don't suppose you have a before/after dyno?

I remember watching that video when Tork released it. It was super informative.

Dynos can be manipulated so easily, so I just don't consider them. I has a SXTH HFC and then switched later to IMR catless primary. Neither made a difference in my trap speeds. I think that's the best indicator for improvement. Also, the fastest of this platform, Charlie Ashby's G70, is running stock downpipes.

I wonder if it's possible that it makes a bigger difference at lower power levels? Once you're on a max tune, pretty much maxing the turbos, like most of the people that have run it, you may not see the gains. I unfortunately don't have data for that because my car has been ECU tuned 21 out of the 24 months I've owned her.

 

[Thomby]

Yeah pretty eye opening that the restriction is that severe, but maybe that's part of what lets it spool at 1400 rpm. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an effort put into offering a manifold/housing without that restriction.

Is it just too complex a part to do affordably? Even chopping out the narrow section of the stock piece and welding in wider tubing seems like a better route than trying to add a wastegate to vent exhaust ahead of the restriction (vs. sending it through the turbine).

 

[GennyGuy]

Yeah pretty eye opening that the restriction is that severe, but maybe that's part of what lets it spool at 1400 rpm. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an effort put into offering a manifold/housing without that restriction.

Is it just too complex a part to do affordably? Even chopping out the narrow section of the stock piece and welding in wider tubing seems like a better route than trying to add a wastegate to vent exhaust ahead of the restriction (vs. sending it through the turbine).

It's a very expensive upgrade. The materials alone for the block will keep shops away.

 

[Thomby]

It's a very expensive upgrade. The materials alone for the block will keep shops away.

Exhaust manifolds can be had for a couple hundred bucks. Same with turbo housings. What makes this combination manifold-housing so hard to replicate?

 

[STINGER]

Yeah pretty eye opening that the restriction is that severe, but maybe that's part of what lets it spool at 1400 rpm. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an effort put into offering a manifold/housing without that restriction.

Is it just too complex a part to do affordably? Even chopping out the narrow section of the stock piece and welding in wider tubing seems like a better route than trying to add a wastegate to vent exhaust ahead of the restriction (vs. sending it through the turbine).

I think that would be the best solution, chop out the narrow section and weld a heavy gauge pipe. Im one looking to stick to oem look as much as possible. Not looking to add external wastegates, huge turbos and diverting water pipes, its just too crammed.

 

[GennyGuy]

Exhaust manifolds can be had for a couple hundred bucks. Same with turbo housings. What makes this combination manifold-housing so hard to replicate?

From what I understand from speaking with 2 different shops, it's the cost of materials. Apparently, it's much more than a few hundred dollars per customer. I read something a few weeks back on this topic of restriction and cost. I think it was either Nathan from SXTH or Evans from IMR. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read it. It may have been on FB groups. If I come across it again, I'll post the link.

 

[HoosierStinger]

I'm looking for suggestions from anyone to increase the life expectancy of my new turbos. I ended up ordering two new turbos because the rebuild shop had mine for 2 weeks and was having trouble sourcing parts.

The guy said there isn't a rebuild kit out yet. He was taking measurements and comparing them to a spreadsheet. Said he could order parts but would have to see them in person to make sure everything fits.

His findings kinda shocked me. He only tore down and inspected one turbo. First, he said the groove where the turbine seal (piston ring) rides was worn. This is what would be causing oil to blow by the turbine seal. Second, he found the compressor wheel had some play on the shaft. Which could've eventually been catastrophic!!!

I've always used full synthetic oil. I've tried most all the best brands. Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Motul, Castrol, Total and Amsoil. The most I ever went between oil changes was 5k miles. Average would be every 4k miles. The engine has 49k miles and I bought brand new in 2019. Also, I always let the engine idle for a few minutes before shutting it off. If I've been going hard then I'll let her idle even longer. I'm kind of at a loss.