Very exciting turbo-4 news for the Kia Stinger!

[YEH]

Speaking of the turbo-4, there's going to be some exciting stuff coming.

According to Motorgraph (a Korean motor publication) the new Theta III family of 4 cylinder engines will be available for FWD, RWD and mid-engine applications (so something like the Hyundai RM16N seems more and more likely).

The report is that for RWD application, the new 2.5T will put out around 300HP (for the mid-engine, it'll be a 2.3T w/ around 350HP).

Supposedly, the next gen G80 (possible launch in 2019) will be the first to get the new 2.5T.

The Stinger likely will get the new turbo-4 for its MCE (2020 or 2021?).

Hyundai's upcoming new engines are supposed to improve thermal efficiency - so more power and better fuel efficiency.

This new engine should improve the desirability of the turbo-4 Stinger.

Should see similar improvements w/ the Lambda III V6s.



Here's the Autoblog take on the Motorgraph report.

Hyundai may be working on Theta III power for a mid-engine car

 

[Kia Stinger]

Speaking of the turbo-4, there's going to be some exciting stuff coming.

According to Motorgraph (a Korean motor publication) the new Theta III family of 4 cylinder engines will be available for FWD, RWD and mid-engine applications (so something like the Hyundai RM16N seems more and more likely).

The report is that for RWD application, the new 2.5T will put out around 300HP (for the mid-engine, it'll be a 2.3T w/ around 350HP).

Supposedly, the next gen G80 (possible launch in 2019) will be the first to get the new 2.5T.

The Stinger likely will get the new turbo-4 for its MCE (2020 or 2021?).

Hyundai's upcoming new engines are supposed to improve thermal efficiency - so more power and better fuel efficiency.

This new engine should improve the desirability of the turbo-4 Stinger.

Should see similar improvements w/ the Lambda III V6s.



Here's the Autoblog take on the Motorgraph report.

Hyundai may be working on Theta III power for a mid-engine car

This is excellent, excellent news. 300 horsepower for the 2.5T four cylinder would really, really be great. What I would REALLY love to see is the 2.3T with 350 horsepower go into the Stinger and bump the 3.3T to 450 horsepower. But that's probably very wishful thinking...

As a side note, the fact that Genesis wants their second generation G80 to be ready for 2019 makes me more comfortable with the idea that the G70 can be priced $5k higher than the Stinger. There's not going to be another G80 priced $10,000 less than the Germans. That's what the Hyundai Genesis was for. Genesis Motors doesn't want to be known as a value brand. They're going to slowly edge the price of the G80 higher. They're aiming for price parity with Cadillac for the time being.

Realistically the price of the G70 will probably be $4k higher than the Stinger at first. The price of the G80 will probably move up $2k to $3k to keep the models a bit of a distance from one another. Genesis Motors isn't too concerned with losing G80 sales as there will likely be plenty of G70 buyers to take their place...

 

[Mike_TX]

^ I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a 2.5-liter turbo four with 325hp and the 3.3 V6 bumped to at least 400. There are lots of 3.5-liters with more hp than that, and a turbo 2.5-liter four can make 325 without much trouble. And both versions of the Stinger need more oomph to be taken more seriously.

I think your predictions on the Genesis pricing are correct, and the same applies to the Stinger. I think we can expect the price on the Stinger to increase fairly rapidly, so it's a matter of get 'em while they hot ... and fairly reasonable.

 

[Kia Stinger]

^ I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a 2.5-liter turbo four with 325hp and the 3.3 V6 bumped to at least 400. There are lots of 3.5-liters with more hp than that, and a turbo 2.5-liter four can make 325 without much trouble. And both versions of the Stinger need more oomph to be taken more seriously.

I think your predictions on the Genesis pricing are correct, and the same applies to the Stinger. I think we can expect the price on the Stinger to increase fairly rapidly, so it's a matter of get 'em while they hot ... and fairly reasonable.

2.5 is a nice displacement for a four cylinder. 2.3 isn't bad either - considering we're starting to see 1.5's (I believe) now. Interesting times...

 

[bluecatsup]

If an uncle chip can bump the 3.3TT to close to 400hp, I don't see why Kia wouldn't match it into production IF their fourbangers' HP ratings actually get too close to their V6 ratings. Exciting news indeed

 

[SEA Stinger]

Will also be interesting to see if KIA rolls out an all-electric version of the Stinger. I recall reading somewhere that the chassis is already designed to accommodate batteries.

 

[Rufus]

Very exciting. And very jealousy-inducing for us early-adopters with the 2.0

 

[YEH]

This is excellent, excellent news. 300 horsepower for the 2.5T four cylinder would really, really be great. What I would REALLY love to see is the 2.3T with 350 horsepower go into the Stinger and bump the 3.3T to 450 horsepower. But that's probably very wishful thinking...

The next iteration of the Lambda V6 w/ TT will likely get over the 400HP mark.

As a side note, the fact that Genesis wants their second generation G80 to be ready for 2019 makes me more comfortable with the idea that the G70 can be priced $5k higher than the Stinger. There's not going to be another G80 priced $10,000 less than the Germans. That's what the Hyundai Genesis was for. Genesis Motors doesn't want to be known as a value brand. They're going to slowly edge the price of the G80 higher. They're aiming for price parity with Cadillac for the time being.

The G70 will have the added service amenities (w/ a coming separate dealer network) - so, along with a nicer interior, will justify part of such a pricing premium.

But Stinger makes up some of the ground by being a larger vehicle and a fastback/liftback (see the pricing premium the larger 4 Series GC and the A5/S5 have on the 3 Series and A4, respectively).

Also, at $32k to start, the Stinger is already perilously close to the starting price of the Infiniti Q50 at $34k (granted, the 2.0T Q50 is down on power compared to the Stinger w/ only 208 HP).

Pricing the G70 $3k more than the Q50 would be a mistake imo.

First of all, the Stinger's pricing in the US is probably a $2-3k grand higher than it should have been (or at the level of pricing, should have gotten more kit and certainly should not have left out the 360cam and wireless charging on the loaded models).

Genesis, with the G70, has gone down the road of Cadillac (w/ the ATS), Jaguar and Alfa with a more performance/handling-oriented model which scrimps a bit when it comes to rear passenger room compared to the C Class, A4 and new 3 Series and certainly compared the Q50, not to mention the upcoming ATS replacement (the CT5).

Hence, unlike the G80 (which offers more rear passenger room than its competition), the G70 doesn't offer that value quotient.

The G70 should be priced alongside the Q50 (at most, maybe slightly higher).

Realistically the price of the G70 will probably be $4k higher than the Stinger at first. The price of the G80 will probably move up $2k to $3k to keep the models a bit of a distance from one another. Genesis Motors isn't too concerned with losing G80 sales as there will likely be plenty of G70 buyers to take their place...

Getting the sense that it'll fall btwn $3k and 4k higher than the Stinger, which is a little higher than what I think they should price it.

Will also be interesting to see if KIA rolls out an all-electric version of the Stinger. I recall reading somewhere that the chassis is already designed to accommodate batteries.

Kia stated something about a hybrid variant (even if its only a mild hybrid); a full-on EV Stinger would be surprising.

Very exciting. And very jealousy-inducing for us early-adopters with the 2.0

Wouldn't feel too bad about it; you'll get to enjoy your Stinger for the next 3 years or so before we get to see the upgrade.

 

[Kia Stinger]

The next iteration of the Lambda V6 w/ TT will likely get over the 400HP mark.



The G70 will have the added service amenities (w/ a coming separate dealer network) - so, along with a nicer interior, will justify part of such a pricing premium.

But Stinger makes up some of the ground by being a larger vehicle and a fastback/liftback (see the pricing premium the larger 4 Series GC and the A5/S5 have on the 3 Series and A4, respectively).

I've always seen the Stinger as closer to the 5-Series/A6 - not so much the 3-Series and A4. Maybe I've been looking at it wrong.

Also, at $32k to start, the Stinger is already perilously close to the starting price of the Infiniti Q50 at $34k (granted, the 2.0T Q50 is down on power compared to the Stinger w/ only 208 HP).

Pricing the G70 $3k more than the Q50 would be a mistake imo.

First of all, the Stinger's pricing in the US is probably a $2-3k grand higher than it should have been (or at the level of pricing, should have gotten more kit and certainly should not have left out the 360cam and wireless charging on the loaded models).

Yes, I think we all agree that the Stinger should have been "under $50k" fully loaded - like we heard for a year before release...

Genesis, with the G70, has gone down the road of Cadillac (w/ the ATS), Jaguar and Alfa with a more performance/handling-oriented model which scrimps a bit when it comes to rear passenger room compared to the C Class, A4 and new 3 Series and certainly compared the Q50, not to mention the upcoming ATS replacement (the CT5).

So I guess the CT6 is the CTS replacement, huh? If the ATS is becoming the CT5...

Hence, unlike the G80 (which offers more rear passenger room than its competition), the G70 doesn't offer that value quotient.

The G70 should be priced alongside the Q50 (at most, maybe slightly higher).

I agree, a little less expensive than the Q50 would make sense - unless it's going to be a much better car...

Getting the sense that it'll fall btwn $3k and 4k higher than the Stinger, which is a little higher than what I think they should price it.

I agree - and it'll cost a little more than we want...

 

[YEH]

I've always seen the Stinger as closer to the 5-Series/A6 - not so much the 3-Series and A4. Maybe I've been looking at it wrong.

Always looked upon Kia not wanting to directly compete against Genesis - so the Stinger being a tweener slotting btwn the G70 and G80 (in addition to option for the fastback bodystyle) and the K900 slotting btwn the G70 and G80.

The 4 Series GC and the A5/S5 are probably the most direct competitors to the Stinger - both having the fastback bodystyle and slotting btwn the 3 and 5 Series and A4 and A6, respectively, in both size and pricing (which is a reason why I don't think Genesis should price the G70 that much higher than the Stinger as the Stinger has the bodystyle/size combo that commands a premium).

So I guess the CT6 is the CTS replacement, huh? If the ATS is becoming the CT5...

Yep, that's the plan for Cadillac's sedan lineup.

The CT5 basically goes back to the size of the 1G/2G CTS w/ the CT6 maybe shrinking a bit for the next gen.

Part of this is bringing back size/interior space in the value equation for Cadillac sedans, but part is also Cadillac wanting to do away w/ separate LWB versions for the China market (basically, Cadillac sedans will already come in LWB form).

Cadillac may still bring a flagship sedan to the market (likely w/ the CT7 moniker), but it may come in fastback form (Cadillac also supposedly has plans for a RWD flagship CUV).

I agree, a little less expensive than the Q50 would make sense - unless it's going to be a much better car...

A little less, but wouldn't have any issue w/ the G70 being the same price (or even slightly more).

But let's say the G70 is the better handler and has a nicer interior than the Q50 (which shouldn't be surprising as the G70 is newer and the smaller vehicle), but the Q50 brings added interior room and let's not forget that Infiniti has been very aggressive when it has come to lease deals for the Q50.

Most buyers in the luxury market don't care if a sedan (or crossover) is the better handler and care more about interior space - which may be the Achilles heel of the G70 (as it has been for the ATS, Jag XE, Lexus IS and the Alfa Giulia).

Personally, the Stinger is more appealing to than the G70 as prefer the sheetmetal and interior design (altho wish the overall quality of the Stinger interior was as good as the G70's when it comes to switchgear), but another key factor is that the Stinger just has more usable space at the rear than the G70, in addition to the utility of the fastback design.

The G80 Sport is a bit large for my needs, but the G70 would be too cramped - the Stinger pretty much hits the spot.

 

[Waynerm002]

My thinking is that those engines will be lighter than the 3.3T which will end up providing better weight distribution, making whatever car they put it in handle much better. Let’s say they pull the 3.3T from the GT, trim some weight from it, and make it handle better, that would give you a powerful car with great handling. They could use the 3.3T in the larger cars (Genesis G80/90) and for a M and RS challenger, they tune the 3.3T to 400+ hp, drop it in the G70/Stinger top performance trim.

Audi did something similar when the A5 launched here, it had a v6, they dropped in a turbo 4 for a few years, then brought it back later. The 2.5T could go for the Optima, Cadenza, Sorento, Sportage, etc., as a top and mid level engine. It’s all speculation now but later we will see what they do.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Always looked upon Kia not wanting to directly compete against Genesis - so the Stinger being a tweener slotting btwn the G70 and G80 (in addition to option for the fastback bodystyle) and the K900 slotting btwn the G70 and G80.

The 4 Series GC and the A5/S5 are probably the most direct competitors to the Stinger - both having the fastback bodystyle and slotting btwn the 3 and 5 Series and A4 and A6, respectively, in both size and pricing (which is a reason why I don't think Genesis should price the G70 that much higher than the Stinger as the Stinger has the bodystyle/size combo that commands a premium).




Yep, that's the plan for Cadillac's sedan lineup.

The CT5 basically goes back to the size of the 1G/2G CTS w/ the CT6 maybe shrinking a bit for the next gen.

Part of this is bringing back size/interior space in the value equation for Cadillac sedans, but part is also Cadillac wanting to do away w/ separate LWB versions for the China market (basically, Cadillac sedans will already come in LWB form).

Cadillac may still bring a flagship sedan to the market (likely w/ the CT7 moniker), but it may come in fastback form (Cadillac also supposedly has plans for a RWD flagship CUV).




A little less, but wouldn't have any issue w/ the G70 being the same price (or even slightly more).

But let's say the G70 is the better handler and has a nicer interior than the Q50 (which shouldn't be surprising as the G70 is newer and the smaller vehicle), but the Q50 brings added interior room and let's not forget that Infiniti has been very aggressive when it has come to lease deals for the Q50.

Most buyers in the luxury market don't care if a sedan (or crossover) is the better handler and care more about interior space - which may be the Achilles heel of the G70 (as it has been for the ATS, Jag XE, Lexus IS and the Alfa Giulia).

Personally, the Stinger is more appealing to than the G70 as prefer the sheetmetal and interior design (altho wish the overall quality of the Stinger interior was as good as the G70's when it comes to switchgear), but another key factor is that the Stinger just has more usable space at the rear than the G70, in addition to the utility of the fastback design.

The G80 Sport is a bit large for my needs, but the G70 would be too cramped - the Stinger pretty much hits the spot.

It's understandable that Kia doesn't want to compete with Genesis. And I see Cadillac has finally accepted that they can't be the American BMW - so they're going back to their "tweeners". I bet the CT7 will be very nice... As for Infiniti - they're missing a couple of features that people here really like. I know one of them is ventilated seats. I think the other is Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. If they add those two simple things - they will gain many more buyers...

My thinking is that those engines will be lighter than the 3.3T which will end up providing better weight distribution, making whatever car they put it in handle much better. Let’s say they pull the 3.3T from the GT, trim some weight from it, and make it handle better, that would give you a powerful car with great handling. They could use the 3.3T in the larger cars (Genesis G80/90) and for a M and RS challenger, they tune the 3.3T to 400+ hp, drop it in the G70/Stinger top performance trim.

Audi did something similar when the A5 launched here, it had a v6, they dropped in a turbo 4 for a few years, then brought it back later. The 2.5T could go for the Optima, Cadenza, Sorento, Sportage, etc., as a top and mid level engine. It’s all speculation now but later we will see what they do.

I'd say a four cylinder Stinger with 350 horsepower would probably perform about the same as the 3.3TT but handle better. I wonder if that's the plan. Maybe the twin turbo V6 will only be available for the first generation Stinger. I would not be surprised. And I would not be surprised if the rest of the brands do the same...